Transing minors goes to Supreme Court (12-04-2024--Hour2)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content, like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to ThePeteKalinerShow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] All right, so a court case was argued today up at the U.S. Supreme Court, which is usually where court cases occur and where they hear them. So the court case is over a Tennessee law banning puberty blockers for adolescents, for minors. And oral arguments were heard this morning.

[00:00:55] And I was listening to a good bit of the oral arguments. I was not able to listen to all of them because the, I think they started at like 10 or 1030. And so I kind of listened on the way into work and I listened here before the show started, but I didn't catch all of it because I think they run the total of about three hours or something like that. And I didn't hear all of it. But I will go back and listen again. If, well, if I, well, I don't think I can actually do that tonight.

[00:01:25] I got, yeah. So anyway, I'll have, I'll be able to go more into the, what was actually covered in the analysis and in the back and forth with the Supreme Court justices during oral arguments. I'll be able to go a little bit more in depth tomorrow.

[00:01:43] But I do have a clip here. But I do have a clip here, two clips actually. So I'm going to start with the one from CNN. And this is Chase Strangio. That is his name. Chase Strangio. And by his name, I mean, I mean her name.

[00:02:05] Chase is trans and is a lawyer for the ACLU and became the first trans person to argue a case in front of the U.S. Supreme Court that we know of, that we know of.

[00:02:22] There may, I don't know. There may have been somebody else. We just don't know. And when they, when they submit their briefs and their arguments to the court, you know, they say, you know, Mr. Pete Callender arguing on behalf of the plaintiffs and that sort of thing.

[00:02:40] And so I submit that. So I wrote, I would write Mr. Pete Callender. Chase Strangio submitted it as Mr. Chase Strangio.

[00:02:53] And so people are pointing out, oh, look at this, the Supreme Court recognizing the mispronouning, right? Because that's, and this is part of the fight. This is part of the argument.

[00:03:04] Now they were arguing, in my understanding of is they're arguing over kind of a more technical thing about who gets to review and whether it should go back to the lower court and all of this stuff.

[00:03:16] So, again, I didn't hear all of the arguments. Haven't read any analysis about the actual oral arguments that did occur.

[00:03:25] But I understand the case to a very minimal degree.

[00:03:30] And Chase Strangio appeared on CNN. I did not do anything to this audio.

[00:03:38] This is, in actuality, Chase Strangio's voice.

[00:03:44] This is, OK, I have not done anything to this audio.

[00:03:49] On CNN, Chase Strangio discussed the upcoming case involving Tennessee's ban on puberty blockers and transgender surgeries for minors that the trans man will argue in front of the Supreme Court.

[00:04:00] He did that today.

[00:04:02] Chase Strangio, Chase, thanks so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

[00:04:04] So the case comes at a time when 26 states have passed laws restricting health care treatments for transgender youth, according to a CNN analysis of data from the nonprofit think tank Movement Advancement Project.

[00:04:16] So how do you plan to argue before the U.S. Supreme Court in a case that could have wide-ranging implications beyond the state of Tennessee?

[00:04:24] Well, thank you for having me, Jake.

[00:04:25] And obviously this is a critical inflection point for transgender people across the country.

[00:04:30] We're coming off of an election season where transgender people played an outside role in people's consciousness in terms of the way in which we were situated as a threat to others.

[00:04:38] And when we look at the map of states that ban this type of evidence-based health care, we went from zero states that had these bans in 2020 to now more than half the country.

[00:04:48] So before the court tomorrow, the question is really a simple one as I see it.

[00:04:52] This is a law that bans medical treatment only when it is prescribed inconsistent with an individual's sex.

[00:04:58] Our argument is that that treats people differently because of their sex, and therefore the court has to treat it like all other forms of sex discrimination, and that's why it's unconstitutional.

[00:05:07] So attorneys representing the state of Tennessee told the U.S. Supreme Court, quote,

[00:05:13] if the government's theory holds, men who identify as women could claim constitutionally-based access to women's bathrooms, women's locker rooms, and women's sports,

[00:05:24] accepting that theory would perversely erode women's rights and jeopardize landmark statutes,

[00:05:30] protecting women's equal access to schools, winners' podiums, and beyond.

[00:05:35] What's your response to that?

[00:05:36] Well, I obviously disagree with that premise that allowing transgender women into women's sports or women's bathroom is a threat to women,

[00:05:44] but it is also not the question before the court in this case.

[00:05:46] And in fact, it is a totally independent question about whether a law that bans medical care for transgender adolescents discriminates against people based on sex

[00:05:55] versus these separate cases that preceded any of these health care bans will continue to be litigated in the courts regardless of the outcome here.

[00:06:01] So that clearly is conflating a bunch of different questions.

[00:06:04] The question before the court tomorrow is about whether banning medical care, overriding the consent of parents,

[00:06:11] the recommendations of doctors is a violation of equal protection.

[00:06:16] What do you say to physicians who are sensitive and supportive of trans kids, obviously don't want suicidal ideation, etc.,

[00:06:26] but wonder if there is enough data as of now to prove that it is beneficial to allow these sort of treatments before the age of 18?

[00:06:35] So I would say three things.

[00:06:37] And the first is we have decades of both clinical experience and research data showing that this is medical treatment that provides critical benefits to adolescents who need it.

[00:06:48] And so this is not new.

[00:06:50] This is not new medication.

[00:06:52] And so we have that information.

[00:06:54] We have long-term studies that track people for five, six years.

[00:06:57] The Supreme Court this week heard arguments in an FDA case in which the FDA referred to long-term as being six months of follow-up.

[00:07:04] Here we have years of follow-up.

[00:07:06] And so that's the first thing.

[00:07:07] And then the second thing I would say is nobody has to provide this medication to adolescents.

[00:07:12] These are not doctors being forced to provide this medication.

[00:07:15] These are doctors who are wanting to treat their patients in the best way that they know how based on the best available evidence to us.

[00:07:22] And these are young people who may have known since they were two years old exactly who they are, who suffered for six, seven years before they had any relief.

[00:07:30] And what's happening here, it's not the kids who are consenting to this treatment.

[00:07:33] It's the parents who are consenting to the treatment.

[00:07:35] And as a parent, I would say we, when our children are suffering, we are suffering.

[00:07:40] And these are parents who love their children, who are listening to the advice of their doctors, of the mainstream medical community,

[00:07:45] and doing what's right for their kids in the state of Tennessee has displaced their judgment.

[00:07:51] They've known since they were two years old that they're trans.

[00:07:57] Is this a bit?

[00:08:00] Are you serious right now?

[00:08:03] Like I've seen kids that think they're dogs and cats at age two.

[00:08:09] They're not a dog or a cat.

[00:08:12] And at some point, they stop pretending that they're a dog.

[00:08:16] Kids think lots of stupid things.

[00:08:18] I used to think that there was a robber, like with the, like the, you know, like the little, the robber mask and the white and black striped shirt and all that.

[00:08:27] And a little black beanie hat.

[00:08:30] And he would be floating outside of my second floor bedroom window.

[00:08:35] And he would break through the glass and then land on my bed.

[00:08:40] And then he would murder my brother.

[00:08:41] So I guess he'd be more of a murderer than a robber now that I think about it.

[00:08:45] But I was a kid.

[00:08:46] And I thought that was real.

[00:08:49] It was not real.

[00:08:50] But I thought it was real.

[00:08:52] But it was not real.

[00:08:56] So no, I don't think a two-year-old knows they're trans.

[00:09:02] But this idea that there is some sex discrimination.

[00:09:08] Is sex gender for the purposes of this argument?

[00:09:13] Because, remember, we've been told that sex is not gender identity.

[00:09:17] They're different.

[00:09:18] Sex and gender are different.

[00:09:20] But then, as I learned during the HB2 bathroom fight in North Carolina, sex and gender are different unless we need them to be the same for purposes of advancing our agenda through the courts.

[00:09:30] And that's why there was this effort, and still is, to get sex to encompass gender identity, even though they're different.

[00:09:37] But we're supposed to believe that when they passed the anti-discrimination laws at the federal level and they put sex, that you can't discriminate based on sex, that that includes gender.

[00:09:49] Except when it doesn't.

[00:09:50] See, it's all perfectly clear.

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[00:10:54] All right, you heard the host there, Jake Tapper on CNN, interviewing Chase Strangio.

[00:11:01] This was done last night.

[00:11:03] That interview occurred last night.

[00:11:05] Oral arguments at the U.S. Supreme Court were heard today on this case out of Tennessee.

[00:11:12] Lindsay Cornick at Fox News writing up the story.

[00:11:15] Minors cannot legally consent to medical procedures.

[00:11:19] And Strangio acknowledged this protection while trying to appeal to parental rights, saying, quote, what's happening here is not the kids who are consenting to this treatment.

[00:11:29] It's the parents.

[00:11:30] You heard this clip.

[00:11:31] Who are consenting to the treatment.

[00:11:32] And as a parent, I would say when our children are suffering, we are suffering.

[00:11:37] The upcoming case is U.S.

[00:11:39] versus Scrimetti.

[00:11:41] It'll be the first time the Supreme Court will consider restrictions on puberty blockers, hormone therapy, and surgery for minors.

[00:11:51] Tennessee is one of more than 20 states now with some form of restrictions.

[00:11:55] Now, in listening to the government's arguments, because the Biden administration weighed in against the Tennessee law, as did the ACLU, and their argument.

[00:12:09] Let me sum up sort of the case in this analogy or this hypothetical.

[00:12:16] They say it is discrimination based on sex.

[00:12:20] Therefore, it's a violation of the equal protection clause in the Constitution.

[00:12:26] Okay.

[00:12:27] How so?

[00:12:28] If a male goes to the doctor and gets a prescription for testosterone, let's say a 12-year-old or a 13-year-old boy is for some reason needing testosterone, wanting testosterone, something.

[00:12:47] They go to the doctor and the doctor prescribes them testosterone.

[00:12:53] That is not illegal under the Tennessee law.

[00:12:58] That kid would be able to get a testosterone prescription.

[00:13:03] If that male goes and asks for estrogen, they would not be allowed to get that prescription.

[00:13:17] Therefore, it is discrimination based on their sex because they're not allowed to get one treatment that is otherwise available to them if they were the other sex.

[00:13:33] Which is weird because I thought it was a construct and that there are more than two genders or something.

[00:13:44] In fact, Kavanaugh asked about non-binary people.

[00:13:48] At one point, Alito was asking, is transgenderism immutable?

[00:13:54] Is that an immutable thing?

[00:13:55] Because what they're trying to do is lay the framework here for transgenderism to be a protected class covered in the law.

[00:14:06] Or as they refer to it as a suspect class.

[00:14:10] And so that's the framework that they're trying to erect right now is the recognition that this is a, quote, suspect class or a protected class.

[00:14:23] Except those are for immutable things.

[00:14:26] And one of the counterpoints was raised by, I think it was Kavanaugh, may have been Alito.

[00:14:32] Whether or not, well, wait a minute, what about people who have a temporary disability, right?

[00:14:38] Like that disability is not something that is immutable.

[00:14:45] And that has generally been the framework utilized for determining whether or not the law applies in these cases.

[00:14:56] The state of Tennessee argued this is a red herring.

[00:15:00] This is not what the case is about.

[00:15:03] In fact, the question turns on medical necessity.

[00:15:07] All right.

[00:15:08] Hey, real quick.

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[00:15:34] Again, that's Pete at the Pete Calendar Show dot com.

[00:15:38] The oral arguments today highlight one of my biggest beefs with lawyers and the legal community is that

[00:15:49] they wordsmith their way to get policies rather than going through the legislative process.

[00:16:00] I hate it.

[00:16:01] I hate it.

[00:16:03] This idea that, you know, a nine year old with the consent of his or her parents can go to a doctor and get.

[00:16:14] Get.

[00:16:15] Hormone replacement therapy or hormone treatments or get puberty blockers and put them on a path to surgeries.

[00:16:25] And that somehow if you know, the state says, no, you can't do that to kids, much like the state says you can't let your kid get tattoos.

[00:16:33] Don't care if you have parental consent.

[00:16:35] Doesn't matter.

[00:16:35] Don't care if you got parental consent.

[00:16:39] Your kid does not get to go and buy liquor and get smashed every Friday and Saturday.

[00:16:46] No, you don't get to do that to your kid.

[00:16:48] You don't get to have sex with the child.

[00:16:51] Right.

[00:16:51] The state may states make laws all the time that run counter to what some of the more permissive parents in our culture might otherwise want for their kids.

[00:17:04] That being said, do some parents allow their kids to behave like that?

[00:17:07] I'm sure.

[00:17:08] I am sure.

[00:17:09] But the state does not have to legalize that.

[00:17:12] And so the state then says, no, you don't get to give these drugs to kids.

[00:17:19] This is not a treatment that you should be doing to minors.

[00:17:23] And the state already there is a long history of precedence in law where the state looks out for the interests of the child.

[00:17:36] That's how parents lose custody of their kids due to neglect or abuse.

[00:17:44] The idea that if the doctors cannot give a kid testosterone or estrogen based on their sex, because like, OK, you're a boy.

[00:17:58] We're not going to give you estrogen.

[00:18:00] Oh, you're a girl.

[00:18:01] We're not going to give you testosterone.

[00:18:03] Like we're not going to do that.

[00:18:04] And the federal government, the Biden administration and the ACLU is arguing that that is discrimination based on sex.

[00:18:13] This is what I mean by the wordsmithing to get policies enacted because they can't get it done legislatively because Tennessee did it legislatively.

[00:18:22] They can't get that done legislatively.

[00:18:25] So they're going to go to the courts and they're going to try to get a couple of lawyers to shoehorn in a new definition or a rereading or reinterpretation of plain language.

[00:18:37] And they're going to say, well, this is now based on sex and you're not giving it to me because of my sex.

[00:18:42] And that's discriminatory.

[00:18:43] Because if I was a boy asking for testosterone, you would give that to me.

[00:18:47] Well, yes, because you have testosterone in your body and boys and girls are different.

[00:18:54] And so what Tennessee argued is that this is not actually a sex discrimination case because the question turns on medical necessity.

[00:19:05] And they offered up the example of morphine.

[00:19:08] If you go to a doctor and you're going to have surgery, the doctor is going to prescribe morphine for you.

[00:19:16] Right.

[00:19:18] Now, if you go to that doctor and you want to commit suicide and you're like, give me morphine, the doctor is not going to give you morphine for that.

[00:19:30] There is a ban.

[00:19:32] The doctors don't get to prescribe dosages of morphine so you can go kill yourself.

[00:19:39] Right.

[00:19:39] The use of the drug is a part of the analysis that the doctors are making.

[00:19:46] And so if you are going in there saying, I am a female.

[00:19:51] But I want to be a male.

[00:19:53] Give me drugs to make me a male, which you can't do, by the way.

[00:19:58] But it will make me look like a male in some ways.

[00:20:02] And oh, by the way, there are long term consequences with with these drugs.

[00:20:07] And that was hand waved away by Sotomayor, who said, well, lots of medical treatments have side effects.

[00:20:14] Surely you're not arguing that all anything without anything that is prescribed that has side effects should be banned.

[00:20:21] Like, that's the absurdity.

[00:20:22] Oh, almost as absurd as Ketanji Brown Jackson, KBJ, who, remember, could not define what a woman was at her confirmation hearing.

[00:20:32] Remember that?

[00:20:33] This is why the question matters, because now she's up there deciding how whether or not Tennessee should be able to ban these surgeries and these puberty blockers and the hormones and stuff for.

[00:20:49] Or I don't know, people of various sexes and genders, which are not the same thing unless they need to be for purposes of advancing an agenda, whatever.

[00:21:02] It's completely situational.

[00:21:05] Oh, and then she she equated it to.

[00:21:09] To racism.

[00:21:12] She is so like, oh, my gosh, this woman is.

[00:21:16] This is one of the best lawyers in America.

[00:21:18] Really? She's one of the best lawyers.

[00:21:20] She.

[00:21:21] No, she was.

[00:21:22] She was the fulfillment of a Biden promise to put a black woman on the Supreme Court.

[00:21:28] Check the box.

[00:21:30] That's how she got there.

[00:21:32] I'm not saying that she's not a lawyer, that she didn't have a career in law and all of that.

[00:21:38] No, but she is not a wise, as they said about Sotomayor, a wise Latina.

[00:21:43] They did not know that she she does not.

[00:21:46] She does not exude.

[00:21:51] A wise jurisprudence in my mind.

[00:21:55] I'm not a lawyer, though.

[00:21:57] What do I know?

[00:21:58] At Pete Callender, by the way, is the Twitter account.

[00:22:01] Russ sends a message saying it might just be me, but doesn't that Chase Strangio attorney kind of prima facie disprove that you can change your gender?

[00:22:14] Yeah.

[00:22:15] Yeah, kind of.

[00:22:18] Also, what a Dickensian name there.

[00:22:21] Right.

[00:22:23] Chase Strangio.

[00:22:25] Like, if you're writing this story, it would come up with that kind of a name so the reader knows how to keep all the characters straight, you know?

[00:22:35] Sorry.

[00:22:39] Okay, never mind.

[00:22:40] Not even going to try to correct it.

[00:22:41] All right, let's go to the phones.

[00:22:42] Here's Mary.

[00:22:43] Hello, Mary Kay.

[00:22:44] Welcome.

[00:22:46] Hey, Pete.

[00:22:46] Thank you for having Chase Strangio on.

[00:22:50] It was very entertaining, but it brought up to my mind something pretty interesting.

[00:22:55] I'm a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and it's pretty amazing that in 1995, there was a declaration put forth called The Family, a proclamation to the world.

[00:23:08] And the prophet, the living prophet, and the twelve apostles all signed this document saying,

[00:23:14] We, the First Presidency, and the Council of the Holy Apostles...

[00:23:17] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:23:17] Hang on, hang on, Mary Kay.

[00:23:18] I don't usually let people, like, read entire proclamations.

[00:23:22] Oh, okay.

[00:23:23] It's a cum killer.

[00:23:23] It says that gender is an essential characteristic of individual, premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

[00:23:34] Is gender sex?

[00:23:37] Yes.

[00:23:38] And the thing that's interesting is that that sex, and it came out in 1995 as a warning to us to know that this is coming, that this is going to be challenged, and this is God's stance on it.

[00:23:50] Well, okay, well, you can believe that.

[00:23:54] That's totally fine.

[00:23:54] I think the word gender has been interchangeable with sex for as long as I've been alive and much longer.

[00:24:03] The term is used and has been used interchangeably on, you know, forms and documents and books and, I mean, all over the place.

[00:24:11] It's only a recent development where the left has tried to redefine gender into something that is separate from sex, but only in the instances where they're trying to make policy advancements.

[00:24:26] When they need it to be the same thing in order to get a policy advance, then it will be the same thing.

[00:24:32] So this is, it's just a corruption of the language that they're employing.

[00:24:36] Well, yeah, the lawyer thing is really scary how lawyers are being employed to just distort truth, and they're really good at it, so they get away with it.

[00:24:45] I mean, they're not right, but they're getting away with it, right?

[00:24:48] Right.

[00:24:48] Well, when you have people that write a law that say you can't discriminate based on sex, and then somebody comes along and says, well, that also means gender.

[00:24:57] And so that means gender identity.

[00:24:59] And they're just trying to shoehorn in, right, these different definitions.

[00:25:04] Like, the first step is to create a different definition for the word gender from sex, and then to kind of shoehorn that in to say, oh, well, that's when the lawmakers back in, what was it, the 60s or 70s, when they wrote sex into the anti-discrimination laws, that they also meant gender identity.

[00:25:26] They did not mean gender identity.

[00:25:28] No, that wasn't.

[00:25:30] Sex and gender were the same thing, and it always has been.

[00:25:34] That's a recent development.

[00:25:36] I appreciate the call, Mary Kay.

[00:25:37] Thank you.

[00:25:37] Good to hear from you.

[00:25:39] And this is the corruption of the language and then the weaponization of the corrupted language in order to rewrite law.

[00:25:51] It's another example of living, breathing document philosophy, right?

[00:25:57] Well, the Constitution.

[00:25:58] I know it said Congress shall make no law, but let me give you some different understandings and definitions for these words to make what I want happen.

[00:26:11] It's a constant assault.

[00:26:14] Constant assault.

[00:26:18] Here is, let me see here.

[00:26:20] Pull up this clip.

[00:26:21] This was Alito.

[00:26:25] Sam Alito.

[00:26:27] Pressing Elizabeth Prelogar from the Biden administration on the experimental nature of gender affirming care.

[00:26:35] Can I ask you a question about the state of medical evidence at the present time?

[00:26:41] In your petition, you made a sweeping statement, which I will quote.

[00:26:46] Overwhelming evidence establishes that the appropriate gender affirming treatment with puberty blockers and hormones directly and substantially improves the physical, psychological well-being of transgender adolescents with gender dysphoria.

[00:27:02] That was in November 2023.

[00:27:05] Now, even before then, the Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare wrote the following.

[00:27:12] They currently assess, quote, that the risks of puberty blockers and gender affirming treatment are likely to outweigh the expected benefits of these treatments, which is directly contrary to the sweeping statement in your petition.

[00:27:27] After the filing of your petition, of course, we saw the release of the Cass report in the United Kingdom, which found a complete lack of high-quality evidence showing that the benefits of the treatments in question here outweigh the risks.

[00:27:49] And so I wonder if you would like to stand by the statement that you made in your petition, or if you think it would now be appropriate to modify that and withdraw the statement that there is overwhelming evidence establishing that these treatments have benefits that greatly outweigh the risks and the dangers.

[00:28:12] I, of course, I, of course, acknowledge Justice Alito that there is a lot of debate happening here and abroad about the proper model of delivery of this care and exactly when adolescents should receive it and how to identify the adolescents for whom it would be helpful.

[00:28:26] But I stand by that there is.

[00:28:28] Yeah, she stands by it.

[00:28:29] Yeah, she stands by it.

[00:28:32] The sweeping statement that it has benefit.

[00:28:34] Meanwhile, Chase Strangio was asked by Alito about the Cass report as well.

[00:28:39] The Cass report finds no evidence that the these prescriptions, these puberty blockers actually prevent suicide.

[00:28:48] And Strangio said something pretty Strangio, which is really on brand.

[00:28:53] Called it completed suicide.

[00:28:56] Is thankfully and admittedly rare.

[00:29:00] And that the studies apply.

[00:29:02] The studies Strangio cites for purposes of the oral arguments.

[00:29:08] That the studies Strangio cites apply to suicidal ideation.

[00:29:12] In other words, I have thoughts of it.

[00:29:15] OK, but wait a minute.

[00:29:17] The completed suicide is actually very rare.

[00:29:21] So what what does that mean for the whole do you want a dead daughter or a live son narrative?

[00:29:28] What of that?

[00:29:29] All right.

[00:29:30] That'll do it for this episode.

[00:29:31] Thank you so much for listening.

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[00:29:46] Again, thank you so much for listening.

[00:29:48] And don't break anything while I'm gone.