Tillis going to war on his own party | Hour 1

What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to the Pete calendar show.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. As we do every Tuesday at noon, we chat with Andrew Dunn. He is the publisher of Longleaf Politics, longleafpol.com. He's also a contributing columnist over at the Charlotte Observer and the author of the book, The Change Agent, Pat McCrory's Rise, Reckoning and Legacy. Andrew, how are you, sir? I am splendid today. Oh, that's a new splendid. That is a new one. I have to mix things up. I was going to say fantastic, but you got on me last week. I need to keep you on your toes. Oh, you're a wordsmith. This is your wheelhouse. All right, so I got to tell you, I talked about and played a lot of this audio from this sit-down interview that Tom Tillis did with Jonathan Martin, a.k.a. J. Martin. Over at the Carolina Family Restaurant off Wilkinson Boulevard a couple of, well, I guess about. Two weeks ago. And first off, I got to tell you, not a lot of love from the audience for Tom Tillis. And I'm not sure that the interview and the stuff he said is going to help. You talk about this in, first off, in a piece that you wrote for The Observer that I will get to, but you also wrote at Longleaf Politics. about Tom Tillis declaring war on county party leaders. And so I want to play this short clip here, and this is kind of what you pivoted off of. This is what you were talking about. I've invested a lot of equity in the Republican Party here in the state and at the national level, and I'm trying to get as much of that protected moving into a cycle where we've got some rebuilding, and I'm going to help from the outside. What does that look like? For one thing, it's going through North Carolina and torching every bad leader at the county district level and watch them coming. They've mismanaged our party here in the state. They've lost objectivity. They've targeted moderate Republicans because they weren't conservative enough without having the slightest idea of what that meant for people in at-risk districts. And We've got to get leaders who actually care more about the party than they do about their, you know, feeling like they're a Karl Rove because he had 70 people elect him at a county convention. All right. So he he's announced his intentions. What do you make of this? Well, you know, I almost did a spit take when I heard that. I mean, it's not every day you hear a sitting United States senator saying his retirement plans are going to be to take out county party leaders. So, you know, once that sunk in a little bit, I'm kind of of two minds on this. So I do think that Tillis has diagnosed a real problem. In North Carolina's Republican Party. I mean, it's easy to forget that just because Republicans have run the General Assembly for the last 15 years, that's really the first 15 years that Republicans have had any say-so whatsoever in North Carolina politics. And we still see the impact of that lack of party building, that kind of fledgling party that the Republicans really still are in North Carolina. You know, we don't have the operation that the Democrats have where you've got the established donor networks. You've got a line. of succession that we've seen with governors and state attorneys general here in North Carolina. So I do think that there is a real need for party building among Republicans in North Carolina. But where I take pause here is, you know, there's two ways to go about party building. You could do what actually what Tillis did back in 2010 and raise up good leaders and put people in to run and really cast a vision for what conservative leadership looks like in North Carolina. And Tillis, to his credit, did that in 2010 and flipped the General Assembly. Or you can do what it sounds to me like Tillis is looking to do and just go scorched earth and try to use whatever remaining political muscle Tillis has to wage war, a vindictive war against his political enemies. Yeah, I mean, you call it in your piece that a revenge tour. If that is in fact what he does, we don't know what it is that he's going to do. And in that clip, you hear him mention that the party has been mismanaged. He said it lost objectivity and that it has targeted moderates that are, you know, they have different pressures and realities in order to win in a more swing district. or a tougher district than your, uh, your safe seats. And that, I mean, look, that's the same thing at the national level as well, of course, um, that you've got moderates in both parties, although less so I would submit in the Democrats nowadays. Um, but you've got, uh, you've got moderates and they, they can't be taking the, the sort of red meat votes or you got to find ways to protect them if they do have to take those votes. Um, but again, yeah, like you say, if he's talking about torching, uh, all of these local people, then I'm not sure that's building a party. It sounds more like airing of grievances, Festivus style. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly what it sounds like. And, you know, oftentimes kind of the debate gets broken down into are we going to prioritize candidates and issues that are palatable to the grassroots, the party activists, or are we going to go after the country club types of Republicans? build a message and a coalition that encompasses both. I mean, I don't think that Republicans in North Carolina can be successful in the long term without really intentionally charting a course that is a big enough tent to incorporate both. Well, I think part of the problem, and I hear this all the time from Republicans and conservatives, and I think a good example of it is what we're seeing out in Texas as well, where Ken Paxton beats John Cornyn And then all of a sudden you've got all of these people that for the last 30 years have been telling the grassroots that you have to vote for the Republican nominee after the primary. I mean, fight it out in the primary. Yeah, that's fine. But when we win, you guys got to fall in line. And now they're all putting money on and endorsing the Democrat. And so it's like, well, wait a minute. I thought we were supposed to fall in line. And I look at a piece of legislation like the open carry or not open carry the constitutional carry. Right. Right. And the grassroots really, really wants this. And it's being held up by a few Republicans. And, you know, it's kind of like, well, wait a minute. If if the if the grassroots conservatives always have to fall in line with the quote unquote establishment, I hate that term. But if they got to fall in line with with the leadership and the more moderate elements, when do the moderate elements ever fall in line with the more conservative elements? That's a fair point. And, you know, the answer that you would get is, you know, from the folks who are holding stuff like that up as well, we're trying to preserve a majority, a Republican majority, because it's better than the alternative. But, you know, we're on the verge of seeing where that gets us. Right now, Democrats actually taking the North Carolina House used to be kind of the outlier case, you know, just a remote possibility. And now it's actually the prediction of what's going to happen next week. Yeah. I'm yeah. I don't make any predictions on elections. I've told you that before, cause I'm not good at it and there's very little value in it for me. Um, but yeah, and I get the sense that, you know, the response is going to be, well, we gave you the majorities and you didn't give us these things. And there's always a reason why, you know, Oh, we have to preserve the majority. But if you're preserving a majority to not get stuff done that the grassroots or the base or whatever you want to call it, um, that they want to see done. What's the point of the majority? And that's what, that's what I hear now is like, well, I'm just going to stay home because I wanted them to do X, Y, Z. They only did X and Y. And so therefore I didn't get everything that I wanted now to be sure. And I've, I've criticized people for adopting that posture. Like, well, the answer isn't to give your opponents the power, where you'll get zero out of everything you want. But I guess like, how, how do you, yeah, how do you force it? Cause it sounds a lot like that's what Tillis is representing, right? This, this sort of John Cornyn wing of the Republican quote unquote establishment. And I just don't know the thing that I kept thinking. And I said this on the show the other day, as I was listening to all of the clips and I'm like, I just, I get the sense that he, you know, to borrow a phrase from the interweb, he doesn't know what time it is. I kind of get the sense that he is still operating from a 2010 or even a 1980s Reagan mindset, and I don't know if that applies any longer. What do you think? I think that's part of it. I think the bigger problem for Tillis is twofold. One, I think it's painfully obvious how much disdain he has for the grassroots, side of the party. Well, now he's not even trying to hide it whatsoever. He's never been a grassroots darling. but at least back in the day would at least show up at Lincoln Reagan Day dinners from time to time and talk with folks. But now he's not even trying to hide it. But then the other one is, I think, Once you spend enough time in Washington, D.C., it's almost become a cliche that the tendency is to turn into a swamp creature, and I think that's very much the trap that Tillis has fallen into, is that he's forgotten how he got there and who he serves and kind of has his own ideas of what it means to be a United States senator. Yeah, you also tell, we talked about the why here, and you go over this in your piece at Longleaf Politics, but there's also the how. how do you actually build the party? And you said there's two paths there. Like one is to build the party, uh, or you go on this sort of vengeance tour or revenge tour. Um, and you think that is the more likely option. Why? Just because it's harder to build the party and it's a bigger time commitment. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I, I just, I, after listening to Tillis's interviews and reading his book over the last couple of weeks, I don't, see Tillis adopting a sunny disposition moving forward. I think that the. The vindictiveness is really going to come out. But, you know, I don't know, you know, speaking of the how, I don't know how Tillis plans to actually go about waging this revenge tour. You know, he talks about torching county party leaders. I mean, I don't think. His influence enough is going to sway very many people who are voting at county GOP conventions. I guess what he'd have to do is the nuts and bolts of organizing and actually, like, knocking doors and getting people to come out and attend the convention and vote. And I just don't see Tillis doing that either. Yeah, that's the thing, like, I don't understand. I mean, because his brand is so bad. I mean, and you mentioned this in your piece as well, the censure that the base actually pushed forth against him several years ago. I still think that animates a lot of his His thinking on a lot of this stuff. So how do you go about like you have to basically rebuild every county level operation from the ground up in order to replace the existing infrastructure. Whatever it might be. And I like I don't I don't know if that's torching the place. As he says, it sounds just like he's going to be taking pot shots at people. Yeah, that does seem the more likely scenario, and it may end up backfiring on him. All right. We have to leave it there. I was going to ask you about the other piece, but people can read it over at Longleaf Politics, longleafpol.com, about the North Carolina teacher pipeline. We'll leave it there. Andrew Dunn, thanks for your. Time, sir. We appreciate it. Thank you. All right, buddy. That's Andrew Dunn again, longleafpol.com. And his book is called The Change Agent, Pat McCrory's Rise, Reckoning, and Legacy. The holidays will be here before you know it, and so now is the time to create precious and priceless family heirlooms that will last for generations. Take your old photos, slides, films, and tapes to create a video in Mint Hill. There, they'll turn those memories into the story of your lives, memories from past family events captured forever to pass down to future generations. Create-A-Video's skilled team will professionally transfer your family's stories onto easy-to-use USB drives or DVDs, that won't deteriorate over time like the old photos and tapes are doing right now. They will create a keepsake video that you can share and copy and keep forever. I can see it now. You're gathered around the holiday table with your loved ones, watching all these memories and people of your lives. 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And he points out very much the same thing that in the lead up to the midterm elections, Tom Tillis has spent more time bashing Republicans to the corporate media than he has spent campaigning or fundraising for Michael Watley. That's because he is controlled opposition, right? This has been the knock on Tillis for a very long time that he is quote unquote controlled opposition. In other words, you bring in somebody who, into your party. Not that the Republicans brought him in. He's been a Republican for a very long time. Tom Tillis has, um, but he is, he is, his role in the party is to control the opposition to the Democrats. And this is a question that I have asked for several years now is, um, He was on the Senate Armed Services Committee. That makes sense. You got a lot of military bases in North Carolina. Pretty standard there for a North Carolina senator to be on that committee. But then he moved over to the Judiciary Committee. And to me, that didn't make a lot of sense because he's not a lawyer. And I'm not saying you have to be a lawyer to be on the Judiciary Committee. However. I think it does make some bit of sense to have lawyers, particularly conservative lawyers, who are then able to question the various nominees, whether they're coming from a Republican president or, more importantly, from a Democrat president. You want somebody that's asking the questions that is grounded in judicial philosophy and And Tillis does not have that background. And so I always wondered, why of all senators did he get onto that committee? And I have heard from people familiar with the matter, let. Me just say it that way, that he was a vote for Cornyn. He was an allied vote for John Cornyn. And John Cornyn and Tom Tillis have both taken positions and voted against things that Republican base really wants. And they'll say, well, we couldn't get it done. We didn't have the votes. We couldn't give you everything that you asked for. But there's a difference between not being able to deliver everything that you've asked for and then doing something that's not what the people asked for that puts you into office, doing something that's at odds with that. Cornyn got sideways in Texas with his constituents over his Second Amendment votes, his gun votes. So like there comes a point where it's like, yes, I understand you need to try to get some bipartisan legislation worked out and all of that. But if you're selling out the principles that people sent you there to defend, then what's the point of having you there? That's their view on it. Right. All right. Real quick. Every government number gets revised. Right. Every projection gets walked back. Gold does not file corrections like GovCo. Revelation Gold Group helps families hold physical gold and silver, including in a tax-advantaged gold IRA. It's real, it's in your name, and 10 minutes tells you if your retirement account qualifies. If you want to learn more, go to calendarmetals.com. That's calendarmetals.com. There is a link in the podcast description. Or if you want to talk to somebody, you can call 888-465-3049. From the text here is Alan. I'm pretty sure people are asking for elected officials that put their country before their party. So yeah, Tom pounds sand. Well, I think Tom Tillis would say that he is very interested and this is what he wants to do is to rebuild the Republican Party. But in his mind, it sounds like from the interview, right, that he's rebuilding it in the Reagan model. And I talked about this the other day, right? The Reagan coalition, they were like, it was referred to as like the three-legged stool. You had the Christian conservatives, you had fiscal slash libertarians, right? And you had the, quote, war hawks, the defense Republicans. And the thing that unified all of them was an opposition to communism. And maybe that will work again now that we're seeing the rise of the red-green alliance. Maybe that works again. But that's what kind of fell apart along with the fall of the Soviet Union, that coalition. Frayed and fragmented. And, you know, just like any coalition, when you've got elements of the coalition that are lower on the pecking order, you know, that they don't get what they want, And they keep giving you their votes. Eventually, they look elsewhere because they're not being served by the coalition that they're in. Every time they vote, they fall in line. They vote for the party-endorsed candidates and such. But then they don't ever get what they are asking for. As part of that coalition, you will lose that. Chunk of people. And the thing that I. That I sort of advise against for whatever that's worth, nothing, but like this, this willingness that a lot of people have to just say, we don't need them, kick them out. Right. I'm not a fan of the purity tests either. I do recognize when Tilla says you got moderate Republicans that are trying to win swing seats. I recognize that is true. Like you can't expect moderate Republicans in swing districts to vote with the hardcore conservatives on every single issue all the time because they'll be there for one term and then you'll lose the seat to the Democrats. And controlling the number of seats is important. That's a very important part of the calculus here. There are a lot of people, particularly on the conservative side, I have noted, there are a lot of people that are totally fine being just in the minority. So they can be pure conservatives. And you can rail against everything. You can complain against everything. I'm not saying you. I'm saying the king's you, right? The royal you, if you will. And they're just happy complaining about stuff, but they'll never govern. So you're getting nothing. In fact, you're getting worse stuff. So the math has to be part of the equation here because it's math, and that's what equations are. So you have to understand that if you don't control the bodies, then you can't move legislation. Then all you will ever be is just sort of some token bipartisan votes to tack on to a Democrat priority. And for a lot of Republicans, particularly a lot of those moderate ones, they're okay doing that. So that's the– I mean– It's tough. This is a tough thing. This is part of the deal with managing a coalition. The Democrats have the same problem, too. That's why they kept feeding that alligator the DSA. It's about to eat them and maybe all of us with them. But same thing. Same idea. But the coalition, you know, or a group inside a coalition that feels like it's not being heard, it's not getting anything that it's voting for, they'll peel away and they'll stop supporting the coalition candidates. But there also has to be some element of, dare I say, maturity to recognize that you're not going to get everything that you want in life, let alone politics, right? You're not going to get everything you want. And so that's why you got to keep lobbying and fighting and advocating, right? You got to keep working for those things you want. All right, let me go back to the text line here. I'm rambling. Sean. Says i voted early and i was appalled that a vast majority of the judges races yeah the judicial races had no republican running at all yeah there are no republican uh candidates for judge in mecklenburg county none that i saw not on my ballot at least uh the only republicans you could vote for were at the uh state level court of appeals right supreme court um They were all just Democrats running unopposed. That is definitely something the Republican Party needs to address. Yeah, I mean, the judicial races, I've talked about those races too. Those are difficult. Number one, the legal profession is just packed with Democrats, particularly in big cities like ours. Number one. Number two, you know, you run against a sitting judge and, you know, then you got to go appear before that judge at some point. Yeah. Yeah, awkward, right? It's awkward. So like there are different dynamics at play as well in the judicial races. But yeah, Republicans need to find candidates to run for judge. Jennifer says Tillis has always been a Democrat in sheep's clothing. His arrogance is incredible. 919 number says Tillis was censured by the NCGOP, not because he wasn't conservative enough. It's because he started working for amnesty with Chuck Schumer. Awesome. Andy says Tillis is the least conservative guy ever. He was probably Lindsey Graham. Okay. I'm not. Okay. Andy, you don't. That's Matthew already read that one. Tillis is a, yeah, I already read that one. 704 number says Tom Tillis is another example of why politicians as people are irrelevant. His popularity declined. So he decided not to run again on his way out. He writes a book, and does a media tour that achieves absolutely nothing for his constituents. His sole focus is on his own power and influence. Politicians do not care about the people. We should only care about how they vote and what they do. Yeah, this is why I say don't fall in love with a politician. Don't ever do it. They're human beings, right? And they'll break your heart at some point or another. Joe says Tillis is another example of a politician who would rather rule than serve. He believes that his constituents just aren't smart enough to understand what he's trying to do for us. Andrew Dunn made a point. Yeah, this is how he closed out his piece at Longleaf Politics. I hope Tillis spends more time helping people succeed than explaining why everyone else is an idiot. He's already written that book. All right, let me jump over into the phone lines here and talk to Ralph. Hello, Ralph. Welcome to the show. Ralph. Ralph. All right. Good stuff. Donna. Hello, Donna. Welcome to the show. Hey, Pete. I have a pick against Tillis that I've not heard anyone else mention. During COVID, they did some kind of town hall meeting on the phone, and he was the speaker. And somebody, multiple people called in and complained about when they would go to stores, they might see a customer without a mask. And Tillis said, his advice to everyone was, do what I do. He said, every time I walk into any kind of public business, store, whatever, if I see one person in there without a mask, I ask for the manager's And then I tell him or her that I will not step in your facility again unless you make everyone wear a mask. Now, he was that gung-ho for those useless masks. Some of us couldn't wear them because of medical conditions, and it made it bad for businesses. You know, if everyone's going to get you shut down if I see one person without a mask. So apparently he was a big Fauci fan. And I am not. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it speaks to a bully mindset as well. That Tillis exhibits on occasion. It's bullying, you know. Yeah. And, you know, people, which is kind of ironic because he said in that interview when he was talking about Donald Trump and he's like, you know, Americans are forgiving people, but what they don't like is a bully. And it's like, yeah, but you're doing that too. Like, you've done that as well. And to be sure, I'm sure there's an element of that in all politics, I'm sure, you know, to try to muscle some legislation through. But in your example, I remember the example. I remember that. Yeah, I mean, that's... Yeah, he's a bully. Well, he ought to be having to wear a mask. Make him walk around with a mask all the time. Well, there you go. Yeah, Donna, I appreciate the call. All right, thank you. TPS on the text line says, during my lifetime, Tillis, Graham, McCain, and their ilk have been the problem with the Republican Party. They don't know how to govern or stick together to unify the nation against the liberal onslaught. So here we stand today with Americans voting for DSA candidates and supporting Islamic fascists. The weakness, not supporting the conservative base and personal selfishness of people like Tillis are why we now face this radical social mess. But he and others like him could care less. I watch a lot of. Different podcasts or YouTube shows, right? Interview subjects and stuff like that. I watch probably too many from across the pond. Out of Europe. I watch a lot of these British podcasters. They bring in guests, you know, from the government and whatever. And so, like, obviously, they got a lot of stuff that they're talking about with their social dynamic and the problems they've got there. And one of the things that keeps coming up in various ways, even if it's unstated, but it's that the population has been telling its leaders what it wants. And they've been. Doing that for the better part of 20 years. And no matter who they put in, the leaders refuse to abide by the wishes or demands of the people. And that's why this thing is getting completely out of control now. Like, and it, it really does come down to yes, the economics situation over there, but also the immigration issue, right? People voted for conservatives. Conservatives said they would stop the boats. They would stop the illegal immigration and everything. And then they did not. And now they've got the labor party in the UK specifically here, and they're not doing it. And so it's this, It's this constant just beat down on the population that is voting for people and voting for... That's what Brexit was about. Remember that? How long ago was that? They've been saying, we want this, we want that. And no matter who they put in, they're not getting it. And that's why you end up with this volatility. And. I think that is, to a degree, what we see here particularly in the Republican Party. The Democrats, to me, they're lost. I've talked a lot about the Democrat Party, the problem inside the Democratic Party with the DSA. They have no natural immunity. It's a morally relativist party. Their ideology is moral relativism. So they have no natural immunity to this stuff. But there could be an opening for this realigned political party that is the Republican Party to embrace some of these people in. The downside or the tradeoff there is that you're going to lose probably some of the conservatism. That's my fear, is you're going to lose some of like particularly the fiscal conservatism. You're going to lose that as even just some sort of an idea. We all recognize it hasn't really been in practice. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast. So if you'd like, please support them, too, and tell. Them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to the Pete Kaliner show dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening and don't break anything while I'm gone.