The Cruz-Carlson argument (06-19-2025--Hour1)

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[00:00:28] Alrighty, welcome to the program. News Talk 1110-993-WBT. It's Thursday, June 19th. Welcome. The phone number 704-570-1110. The email is pete at thepetekalendershow.com. So I did end up watching it. I did. I watched the Tucker Carlson versus Ted Cruz TCVTC.

[00:00:56] It wasn't an interview. It was an argument. It was a two-hour-long argument. And I basically watched it twice. So you don't have to. Well, I mean, you can. I'm not telling you that you shouldn't. I'm just saying you don't have to.

[00:01:13] I'm going to give you some of the highlights. I'm going to focus on the portion of the, which was most of the two hours. It was focused on Israel and to a lesser extent, Iran, but mainly Israel. That's what Tucker came to talk about. And that's what he came to grill Ted Cruz about. And I don't think either of them came out looking very good on this.

[00:01:45] Ted Cruz has this habit of doing these very long pauses between sentences, like he's sort of racking up the argument in his mind before he launches into it. And the problem is that when he pauses for so long in between the periods at the end of his sentences, Carlson is able to interject and then send the conversation in a different direction.

[00:02:09] Rather than Cruz bringing it back to the point he was trying to make, he did try to do that a couple times. But I think Scott Pinsker over at PJ Media, I think he's exactly right that this was a bad faith interview. I don't even think it was really an interview. It was a debate. And one guy came to talk, Pinsker says, and the other came for blood.

[00:02:37] And I think Cruz came into it thinking it was going to be a lot more friendlier. And Carlson came in looking to get clicks. That's just my opinion. I don't know if that's true. That's just my read on it. I have not watched Tucker Carlson's podcast shows or his YouTube shows, whatever.

[00:03:01] I've not watched them for a very long time. I don't particularly care for the guests that he thinks are interesting. I do not find them interesting. I find them to be a little wacky. I find Tucker Carlson to be a little wacky nowadays. In fact, I think he's never really been the same since he ditched the bow tie. I cannot prove causation on that, but it just seems like that's when things really started going off the rails.

[00:03:30] Or maybe this has always been Carlson, but when he was working for major outlets like Fox News, maybe they had erected guardrails around him, and so some of this stuff never got out. But when you platform guys like that martyr-made moron, and you platform Jeffrey Sachs repeatedly, and Cat Turd 2, like these are the people that you're bringing on, and you're just asking questions,

[00:03:59] always just asking the questions. In fact, he mentions that very line and admits that that's all I'm doing. Scott Pinsker says the benefit of the long-form platform was that it facilitated an open-ended, free-floating conversation where both sides learned more about the other. But there was an important catch, right? With the rise of podcasts, these long-form chats,

[00:04:25] it only works if both parties, both sides approach it in good faith. You had to really, truly care about what your subject has to say. If you're doing an interview in a long form like this, and I've heard Joe Rogan explain this, that when you have somebody at the table with you for three hours, they can't, like politicians are very adept at this,

[00:04:56] you know, tap dancing through an answer and then moving on because they know you're up against a clock. When you sit for three hours, you cannot keep that going for the full three hours. And so eventually the subjects kind of wear down and you get more of a glimpse at who they really are and what they really think, and they can't, you know, dodge questions repeatedly throughout the entire interview. And that's the thing about Joe Rogan,

[00:05:24] and I don't agree with everything that Rogan says or believes or the guests he brings on either, but he does seem to be, as Pinsker notes, genuinely curious about his guests. I have found that to be true. He doesn't invite people on to mock them or belittle them. He's not trying to settle stupid feuds or score points or play a political game of gotcha. But that sure wasn't Tucker Carlson's approach during his astonishingly mean-spirited interview with Ted Cruz.

[00:05:54] The ex-Fox News host had absolutely no interest in hearing Cruz's opinions or to better understand his position and President Trump's position on Israel, Iran, or anything else. Even though, by the way, I would add that he would say, oh, I'm just trying to understand this. And then as soon as Cruz would start trying to explain it, Carlson would interrupt him and ask some other just-asking-questions kind of a question. His purpose wasn't to have a grown-up conversation about grown-up issues,

[00:06:24] but to mock and belittle Ted Cruz so the video goes viral. Tucker Carlson, at one point, you'll hear him, he says, I don't think I'm obsessed with Israel. In a podcast where Israel was mentioned 140 times, Cruz tried to be conciliatory. At one point, he's like, let's turn down the temperature here. He was at times polite and respectful. Carlson responded with rudeness,

[00:06:54] condescension, personal attacks, and multiple times just laughing right in Cruz's face. But that's a tick of Carlson's. He's done that forever. At one point, Carlson says, no Iranian is trying to kill me, which is weird because unless he's developed some sort of an immunity to radiation, I'm not sure that's true. Meanwhile, you know, Carlson has been on this campaign to derail the most delicate,

[00:07:22] high-stakes foreign policy initiative of the Trump presidency, which is supporting our ally Israel. Now, maybe your argument is that you don't think Israel should be our ally. Okay, well then make that argument. You don't think Israel is worthy of ally status. But Israel is trying to defang the Iranian nuclear menace. Now, maybe you don't think Iran poses any sort of a nuclear menace. Make that argument. Carlson never does.

[00:07:55] And trying to keep us out of another, quote, forever war. And Carlson makes note of this, that you never know, once the shooting starts, you never know how it's going to unfold. And he is right about that. But that doesn't address the support for Israel doing what it's doing. And the constant gotchas like, oh, we're involved militarily? You're saying? Oh, and I played this, the clip yesterday.

[00:08:23] But Carlson just comes across as utterly bad faith, not interested in debating the merits, but more interested in scoring political points. And then he took offense when Ted Cruz implied that he's anti-Trump. He said, I love Trump. I voted for Trump. I talked to Trump last night. But you'll recall maybe, or maybe not, it was Tucker Carlson, who in text messages

[00:08:54] revealed during the Dominion voting systems lawsuit that he wasn't really a big fan of Donald Trump's. Now, maybe his views have changed. And he said this also a couple times in the debate with Cruz, that he's changed his positions on a lot of things over the years. He cannot promise consistency, but he will promise sincerity. And I honestly don't believe that he can promise that either. I mean, this is the guy who texted, which came out in that lawsuit.

[00:09:24] We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights. I truly can't wait. I hate him passionately. That's what he said after, or on January 4th, 2021. So after the entire first term of Trump, right before J6, that was Carlson's view of Donald Trump. And again, maybe he changed his views on Trump, and now he loves Donald Trump,

[00:09:54] while he opposes virtually every military action Donald Trump has taken. That's possible, I guess. This again is from Scott Pinsker at PJ Media. He says, if you want to call it a debate, Carlson won. He dominated the argument, delivered the cruelest barbs, and battered Cruz at will, which is no easy feat, because Cruz is a skilled and talented debater. I would add, on a clock. Ted Cruz is better on a clock. I'll explain in a minute. Here's a great idea.

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[00:11:23] for any occasion. And they have pet-friendly accommodations. Call or text 828-367-7068. Or check out all there is to offer at cabinsofashville.com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. All right, so Scott Pinsker at PJ Media, he says, if you want to call it a debate, Carlson won. No easy feat because Cruz is a skilled, talented debater. And I added one caveat here, which is on a clock.

[00:11:54] Ted Cruz on a stage with a timer debating somebody where he knows he's got two minutes and it's all his, right? He is good. The problem is, if he's not on a clock, if he's not on a stage where he is the only one on the stage doing a speech or something, or if he's, you know, on the Senate floor or whatever, if he controls the time, then he is very good. Arguing in front of the Supreme Court, also very good.

[00:12:23] Not so good when he's dealing with somebody like Tucker Carlson during this argument, or remember in 2015, I think it was Ohio, and he's going to an event and he's talking to voters and there was a Trump supporter there and the guy just keeps just slamming him with these personal insults every time Cruz stops to take a breath, to reframe his train of thought, you know, reframe his argument or whatever, and he takes these long pauses

[00:12:52] of about two seconds, which is a long time in a discussion or in an argument. So he takes these long pauses to think about what he's about to say and then in that gap comes the insult or the deflection or a pivot to a different question if you're talking about Tucker Carlson. In the case of the guy up in Ohio, that voter, he's like, yeah, but you stink. You know, he just throw in these attacks against Cruz

[00:13:21] and it makes him look like he's losing because he's just getting, he's taking this barrage of personal insults. So, Pinsker says this was an unfair contest because only one side was actually playing to win. Cruz tried to have a conversation with somebody that he naively considered a friend. Carlson wanted Cruz's head on a pike. So again, one guy came to talk, the other guy came for blood. And at one point,

[00:13:50] Carlson actually called Ted Cruz a neocon. He said, I haven't called you a neocon once, but you are, which would be calling him a neocon. But for the record, Ted Cruz opposed the Iraq war, unlike Carlson. But now Cruz supports Israel, so now he's a neocon. See, these arguments and these labels don't mean much. This is why Carlson has been tagged with this,

[00:14:19] I think appropriate tag of woke right. There is a collectivism, right? When you're talking about the woke, you're talking about not just ideologies, you're talking about tactics. They're collectivists. You're talking about the view of everybody and everything through oppressor versus oppressed worldview. And what the woke right does is they swap out the victim classes. They swap out the collectivists

[00:14:48] or the collectivism that they belong to. So they advocate the same sorts of tactics, the same sorts of strategies, the same way of thinking, the dialectic, to use a Marxist term. But they claim they're not the woke left, but they do share all of that same sort of DNA. DNA. And that's why they get so mad when you call them woke. Right. But that's why Carlson has been tagged

[00:15:18] with this. Okay, I've got time. We'll start this first clip. Carlson then asks a question about Israel spying on U.S. officials. Right? And we played that clip yesterday. Like, I can't believe that we're giving them money and they spy on us. And Cruz is like, well, all of our allies spy on us. Yeah, but that's not good. You should say it's not good. And then he uses that question to then pivot into a line of questioning about AIPAC, America-Israel Political Action Committee.

[00:15:50] I've got to say, and this is, it's weird. We're talking about isolationists, the obsession with Israel. Why is Israel, I don't think I'm obsessed with Israel. Okay, but I think a lot of people are. And like the question, Israel spies on us. Well, so does every other country. Why are you mad at Israel? I guess, no, no, no. I'm hardly the one who's, I've never taken money from the Israel lobby. Have you? Taken money from the Israel? From AIPAC. So AIPAC raises a lot of money for me, but it's actually a misnomer because the people who raise money are individuals.

[00:16:19] So it's not the PAC itself, but they're individual members who believe in the American-Israeli friendship and relationship. Is AIPAC a foreign lobby? No, it's an American lobby. It's the, AIPAC stands for the America-Israeli Political Action Committee. What is it lobby for? So, to be honest, not a whole lot effectively. Listen, I came in to Congress 13 years ago with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the United States Senate. And I've worked every day to do that.

[00:16:49] AIPAC, a lot of times, AIPAC, I wish were much more effective. Like, there are folks online who are in the fever swamp terrified of AIPAC. And AIPAC, I'm not terrified of AIPAC at all. I'm, you're the one who seems a little uncomfortable when I'm asking. not uncomfortable at all. I'm just, see what he's doing? You can hear what he's doing. First, he calls it the Israel lobby. Right? It's the America-Israel Political Action Committee. They take donations from Americans. These are Americans

[00:17:18] who want a close relationship with Israel. It's not the Israel lobby. These are Americans making donations saying, we want to be allied with this other country, that's not the Israeli government lobbying our government. Asking what AIPAC does, my understanding, having known a lot of people who want to AIPAC, is that it lobbies on behalf of the Israeli government. Okay, and Cruz is right, that they lobby on behalf of the Israeli government.

[00:17:47] That's not true. They are not paid by the Israeli government. These are American donors. Oh, okay. When was the last time AIPAC took a position that deviated from Prime Minister Netanyahu? All the time. No one. Okay. Let me go back and give a little history. If you want to do a deep dive on AIPAC... I don't. I want to do a shallow dive that gets... No, no, no. I want to get to the core question. AIPAC is lobbying for a foreign government. False. Again, false. He does it again. They're lobbying

[00:18:17] for a foreign government. Words mean things. That's not true. It's not. It's lobbying for the United States. It is lobbying for a strong U.S.-Israeli relationship. Okay. So it has nothing to do with the foreign government. It wants America and Israel to be closely allied. Okay. But it's lobbying on behalf of the interests of another country. So that's not true at all. Lobbying on behalf of the interests of a foreign government. See, again, it's like this foreign influence.

[00:18:47] It's all about the foreign influence. Again, these are American donors. Americans who want to be closely allied with Israel. Israel and they organize themselves. They pool their money and they try to elect candidates that agree with them. And it's not true. No. How much contact do you think AIPAC leaders have for the government of Israel? No idea. I imagine some. I think the government of Israel is often frustrated with AIPAC because AIPAC is not nearly strong enough. Do you think there's any coordination between the government of Israel and AIPAC? Do they talk?

[00:19:17] Sure. So I'm not mad about that. There are a million countries that lobby Washington. I like a lot of those countries, including Israel. But AIPAC or Americans? They're not Israelis. Hold on. There are tons of Americans who lobby on behalf of foreign governments. I know them. I'm related to some of them. I know how it works. I'm from here. So my question is not, is it outrageous that foreign governments lobby the United States? They all do, okay? Including Israel. My only question is,

[00:19:47] why don't we admit that is what's happening? You're denying it, but it's true. Because what you're saying is false. Why aren't they registered as a foreign lobby? Because they're not. They're not a foreign lobby. No, they're not. And there's a fever swamp. Look, it's not a fever swamp. These are very reasonable questions. And you've accused me of being obsessed with Israel, which I'm not. I actually haven't. I've said isolationists are. And of being feverish about it, which I'm not at all. I'm just, I find it, it's a very tender spot when you ask it. And I don't know why. He does know why. He absolutely knows why.

[00:20:16] Because this is the game of footsie that the woke right plays with anti-Semitism. This is what they traffic in now. They've got a lane. Their audience loves it. And so they're throwing the clickbait to their audience to get the watches, to get the engagements. That's my assumption. They're captured by their audience. I don't know if they believe it or not. But they have found that it makes the money. A lot of bots online that really love what they're churning out. That's just one hypothesis.

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[00:21:46] Mail orders are accepted too. Get all the details at createavideo.com. News Talk 1110, 99.3 WVT, just asking questions. There are Americans who believe that an alliance with Israel is in America's interest. Those Americans who believe that donate money to AIPAC. AIPAC then uses that money to support candidates that also agree with that objective.

[00:22:15] Ted Cruz says during this interview or this argument with Tucker Carlson that he came into the Senate, this is his line, I came into the Senate with the stated intention of being the leading defender of Israel in the Senate. Okay, so his view on Israel when he came in was he wanted to be the leading defender of Israel in the U.S. Senate. Does that mean that that's the only thing he focuses on? No.

[00:22:45] It means when he's talking about Israel, he wants to be known as the leading defender of Israel. Okay, and you could disagree with that or not. You could say he's not accomplished it or whatever. It doesn't matter to me. But that's what he said. That then gets twisted by Carlson because Cruz goes on to talk about how Obama's deal with the Iranian regime split the Congress because Obama had told Democrats you either stand with Israel or you're a Democrat and you stand

[00:23:15] with me and this deal. And ever since then, AIPAC was gutted basically. Democrats abandoned AIPAC because they were Democrats first. Carlson then agrees that AIPAC is not all powerful and that they're not running everything. I'm only trying to get to the question of what AIPAC is and I don't think you're being straightforward about it. AIPAC is lobbying on behalf of the interests of a foreign country and they're not registered and you're saying no, that's not true. You're saying that they don't coordinate

[00:23:43] with the Israeli government. I coordinate. Do they talk with them? I don't know what they do. I can tell you. But why don't you care? Isn't it meaningful if a foreign government Hey, I talk with Israel all the time. Of course you do. Of course you do. all the time. But the law is and a lot of people have been prosecuted under this law that if you are lobbying on behalf of foreign government you must register. That's it. It's really simple and I don't know why if I'm working from Malaysia or Qatar or Belgium and I'm working on behalf of its government's interests through a group of Americans

[00:24:13] who are representing the friendship between those two nations I have to register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act and if I don't I can go to jail. People have gone to jail including people I know. So I don't understand why we don't just be honest and say they're lobbying on behalf of foreign government they're coordinating with the government you know that that's true. That is not only not true that is false. Right. So Carlson is asking these questions and what Cruz is telling him is it's false. Cruz disagrees. He just disagrees. So then Carlson

[00:24:43] accuses Cruz of not caring right? He assumes Cruz's motive but he just does he just disagrees and he keeps saying lobbying on behalf of the interests of Israel that they're coordinating lobbying on behalf of a foreign government and he keeps interchanging all of these phrases but they don't all mean the same thing and then he shifts again. The question is are AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government to any extent? That's a different question. Are goals shaped by the goals

[00:25:13] of the Israeli government? So now it's not a coordination per se. Now it's not I'm working on your behalf. Now it's okay we have some goals and then you're shaping my goals. Like he's all over the map on this. If you work for if Israel hires a lobbying firm to go lobby for them that firm registers as a foreign agent. That's the FARA Act. But AIPAC doesn't do that.

[00:25:42] According to Ted Cruz Carlson has a different opinion but hasn't offered any evidence to support that. That's a really simple question. That's different from lobbying on behalf of. It's a simple question. Are AIPAC's goals shaped by the goals of the Israeli government? And I'm just going to ask you a question straightforwardly and if you say no I think we both know that's not true. Are they shaped by is that are they coordinating with the Israeli government? Are they talking with them? Israel directing them. You want to talk about FARA the law on lobbying

[00:26:12] on behalf of someone. Yeah. It is I hire you and you lobby on behalf of me. I direct you. Does Israel direct AIPAC? No they're not lobbying on behalf of them. Do they care about them? Yes but. Do you think that it's just interesting because what you're now describing in a very defensive way I will say is foreign influence over our politics. No. And there it is. And it's so transparently obvious to everybody I don't know why you'd be embarrassed of it you've said that you are sincerely for Israel I believe you I don't think you have some weird agenda

[00:26:41] you seem to be sincere. So there it is. The foreign influence over our politics. politics. Right. And that's that's always part of this argument that somehow or another Israel is controlling our politicians and they're doing it through AIPAC or something. Is that the idea? Or they're doing it through the Mossad they're controlling our policies or something. Again remember all of this is simply about whether or not we continue to support

[00:27:10] Israel in its efforts to wipe out Iran's nuclear program which has been the stated goal of America not allowing Iran to get a nuclear bomb that's been the stated position of America for decades now. That's why we've done everything that we have done even like you could say Obama's effort if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt even that was an effort to keep them from getting the bomb. I don't believe that but I think that

[00:27:40] that's what their argument was and that's what Democrats tell themselves. He just had a different way of doing it you know paying them a bunch of money to support terrorism you know around the Middle East. It always it just always comes back to these same echoes of it's the Jews and you want to talk about getting defensive Carlson gets very defensive when Cruz mentions that. You'll hear it up next. All right if you're listening to this show

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[00:29:08] but it also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. News Talk 1110 99.3 WBT going over the Tucker vs. Ted argument yesterday and the reason I'm doing this is because this is a this is the distillation of the riff that has opened up on the right among the MAGA influencer crowd hashtag not all MAGA influencers but

[00:29:38] among a certain sect in the MAGA influencer world and MAGA and Trump and it's over Israel and so Tucker starts asking about the AIPAC and he's he's throwing around terms like oh they're the Israeli lobby they're that they lobby on behalf of the government and that's not true they're not registered agents of Israel because they're not

[00:30:08] paid by the Israeli government they are these are Americans that want to support Israel so they band together just like people who are Second Amendment advocates they donate money to organizations to get people elected that are pro-Second Amendment

[00:30:53] this was the questions about their influence in our politics and then it goes off the rails by the way Tucker it's a very weird thing the obsession with Israel when we're talking about foreign countries you're not talking about Chinese you're not talking about Japanese you're not talking about the British you're not talking about the French the question what about the Jews what about the Jews oh I'm an anti-Semite now Senator you're asking the questions Tucker you're asking why are the Jews controlling our

[00:31:23] foreign policy that's what you just asked I am hardly saying that that is exactly what you just said well actually I can speak for myself and tell you what I am saying on behalf not simply of myself but of my many Jewish friends which is to what extent and it's interesting you're trying to derail my questions by calling me an anti-Semite which you are I did not of course you are and rather than be honorable enough to say right to my face you are in a sleazy feline way implying it or just asking questions about the Jews I'm not asking questions about the Jews

[00:31:52] I have there's it has to do with the foreign government isn't Israel controlling our foreign policy that's not about the Jews you said I'm asking you're the one that just called me I think a sleazy feline so let's be clear it's sleazy to imply that I'm an anti-Semite which you just did no I just why is that the only question you're asking you answer it give me another reason if you're not an anti-Semite give me another reason why the obsession is Israel I am in no sense obsessed with Israel we are on the brink of war with Iran and so these are valid

[00:32:22] questions he's exactly right we're on the brink of war with Iran he says but Cruz points out you haven't asked a single question about Iran why why are all your questions about Israel you asked me why I'm obsessed with Israel three minutes after telling me that when you first ran for Congress you elucidated one of your main goals which is to defend Israel and I'm the one who's obsessed with Israel I don't see a lawmaker's

[00:32:52] job as defending the interests of a foreign government period any government including the ones that my ancestors come from so that's my position that does not make me an anti Semite and shame on you for suggesting otherwise and I mean that and that's low

[00:33:31] and this is one of the handy conflations that Jew haters do they talk about Israel and they're like I'm just I'm just you know criticizing Israel it's

[00:34:03] which I am not nor would I ever be undertaking now I'm not attacking anybody by the way that's that's who Iran wants to kill is all the Jews and all the Americans and I'm totally opposed to that okay but now because specific decisions need to be made we can talk about those decisions and I plan to but I just want to get a sense of whether you think having described yourself as an America first person whose only criterion for judgment on foreign policy is America's national interest to what extent you're influenced by a foreign government which gives

[00:34:33] you a lot of money through its lobby and you're claiming this has nothing to do with the foreign government they're not courted and yes they're spying on us but it doesn't bother you and I'm sort wondering what is this this this one of the worst conversations I've ever had I'll tell you what and I'll answer any question you like but let's try to ratchet the temperature a little you're the one who went to motive I'm asking honest questions just asking questions yes that is what I'm doing just asking questions Cruz explains how the lobbying money flows to the

[00:35:02] candidates who already agree with the organization's positions not the other way around AIPAC like the NRA like I just explained supports him because they share his objectives Carlson then says I'm not suggesting you're bought and paid for which he literally just did and then he tries to reframe again to what extent I don't think Israel is the only one

[00:35:33] but it's the only one where you instantly called an anti Semite for asking questions and it's also the only government that no one will ever criticize Israel every minute of every day like the only government that

[00:36:03] people will not criticize Rashida Tlaib just tweeted out calling Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal you said no one will criticize I'm talking about Republicans that I would vote for including you so a limiting factor there so when you said no one is allowed to criticize it first off everyone is allowed to criticize it in fact that's all we've been seeing in the tentifadas in the halls of congress

[00:36:33] at your local city council meetings and stuff that's all we've been hearing is criticism of Israel like this this is one of the most absurd arguments that I hear like oh we as soon as we say anything bad about it we're we're labeled and we're we're attacked for it that means you can't say the things no you do say the care about I never do because it's not worth being called

[00:37:02] anti-semites from APAC recipients but now we're on the verge of joining a war and I just want to be clear about why we're doing this okay so I can explain it for Tucker Carlson see there's a country and it's called Iran we could start there all right it's a country called Iran I'm pretty sure that Tucker knows the population and the ethnic breakdown of this country actually so I'm unclear why he's asking why we're

[00:37:32] doing this this country Iran has been in pursuit of a nuclear weapon for a very long time Israel and America have endeavored to stop that because they pose such a threat to both us and them that's the argument all right that'll do it for this episode thank you so much for listening I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast so if you'd like please

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