The cost of illegal immigration (03-06-2025--Hour2)

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[00:00:28] Yeah, I did get some messages regarding the last hour's topic on Twitter. These are Pete tweets regarding our sheriff and the legislation that is now being moved in the state legislature to try to get him to cooperate with ICE. Maybe a citizen-driven class action lawsuit against Gary Not My Fault McFadden, along with the governor and the attorney general. Maybe that might work. Maybe it's part of this legislation. Push.

[00:00:58] To be able to sue local jurisdictions. So, you know, you put these people, you know, you put them at risk for litigation to allow people to sue them if they are victimized by, you know, some illegal alien that you just released because you wouldn't cooperate with ICE. Maybe that'll get them to pay attention too.

[00:01:19] Maybe that'll get them to pay attention to.

[00:01:52] Maybe that'll get them to pay attention to. And here's the summary.

[00:02:22] Illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain. Meaning, meaning they receive more in government services than they pay in taxes. I will point out here, I have never argued, and I'm not aware of any real experts that would argue or have argued, that illegal immigrants do not pay any form of taxes. They do. They do. They do pay taxes.

[00:02:52] They do pay taxes. Different kinds of taxes, and not a whole lot of them, but they do pay certain taxes. But when you look at the cost of services, and then you compare the tax revenue generated, right? There is a net plus or minus. And that's what you should be assessing.

[00:03:13] If we are talking about the costs, that's the true cost, is the difference between the taxes they pay and the services they consume that are funded by those tax dollars. This is one of the things that gets me into some trouble with people. They don't appreciate it when I say stuff like what I'm about to say, but people who work for government are not taxpayers. They are taxpayers.

[00:03:42] They are tax consumers. They consume the tax dollars. Now, they recirculate the tax dollars into the economy. Yes, absolutely. Right? But you're not paying more in taxes than you are receiving because your paycheck is literally paid for with taxpayer dollars. That is not to say you're not doing valuable work, and it's not to say that those jobs, particularly law enforcement,

[00:04:10] that we could not engage in a free economic market if we did not have the umbrella of security that you provide. Right? So I'm not arguing that simply being a tax consumer is bad.

[00:04:29] I'm just pointing out that but for the private sector that actually generates the tax dollars, right, people who work for government in whatever level would not be paid. They would not make any money because all of the money is paid for by the tax dollars that are produced. And the people whose paycheck is derived from that coffer, they are, quote unquote, consuming the tax dollar.

[00:04:58] Again, this is not an insult. I'm not this. I'm just I'm just stating a reality. That is what occurs. OK, so you're looking at the net with illegal immigrants. What they pay in and what they draw out. OK, back to the summary from the testimony. Illegal immigrants actually have high. Oh, sorry. Let me back. I skipped a sentence accidentally. Let me back up.

[00:05:25] So this result that they are a net fiscal drain. The result is not due to laziness or fraud. Illegal immigrants actually have high rates of work and they do pay some taxes, including income tax and payroll taxes.

[00:05:43] The fundamental reason that illegal immigrants are a net drain is that they have a low average education level, which results in low average earnings and low average tax payments. Again, this is not an insult. Right. This is just the data.

[00:06:04] It also means a large share of illegal immigrants qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S. born children. Like they're less educated and low income U.S. born counterparts. The tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create. Right. So what is he saying here?

[00:06:30] That this analysis holds true, whether you are an American citizen or you are an illegal immigrant. The key here is the education level. And the data, the research for decades has borne this out. Lower education attainment. Right. You know, failure to graduate from high school. Means that there is usually a profound effect on your ability to earn income.

[00:06:58] That then has a profound effect on your ability to pay an income tax and your ability to receive various government checks. Right. Welfare. And that and that is irrelevant whether irrelevant to your legal status. Citizen, non-citizen, doesn't matter. The key there is the education.

[00:07:22] This is why when the Brookings Institute did their big study now, probably, I don't know, 25 years ago. And they they offered up sort of the formula for how to get out of poverty and how to stay out of poverty. And these are basic things. And they are things that the government cannot do for you. Right. Number one is.

[00:07:51] Graduate high school. Graduate high school. And you will be less likely to be in poverty and you'll be more likely to get out of poverty if you are in it. Right. So graduate high school. Number two, have a job. Any job. Doesn't matter. Just have a job. Work. If you do some work, you will develop some skill. You can move up in the ranks. You get other opportunities. Right.

[00:08:16] It puts you on a trajectory for a more successful life and career. Number three, do not have kids. Before you before you graduate high school. Now, like these are very fundamental things. And government can't stop you from having the kid. They can't make you finish high school.

[00:08:46] Right. If you want to drop out, you can't like these are these are these are societal things that have to be promoted at the family. Level at the neighborhood level at the town and then county and state. Right. But this is it's a cultural thing. And if you have a culture that rejects education or celebrates unemployment or celebrate or rewards it. Right.

[00:09:12] Or celebrates having lots of kids before you graduate high school and out of wedlock. Well, it's going to make it more difficult for you to stay out of poverty. Because these things are correlated. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know, I try to keep up with all sorts of current events. And I know you do, too. And you've probably heard me say, get your news from multiple sources. Why?

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[00:10:00] I started using Ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check.ground.news slash Pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get 15 percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature.

[00:10:26] Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. All right. So in his testimony before the Immigration Integrity, Security and Enforcement Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee up on Capitol Hill back in January of 2024,

[00:10:50] Stephen Camerata, the director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, laid out the cost of illegal immigration to taxpayers. And he says in the summary. He says that illegal immigrants are a net fiscal drain.

[00:11:09] He says it means a large share of the population here, the illegal immigrant population, qualify for welfare programs, often receiving benefits on behalf of their U.S. born children like they're less educated and low income U.S. born counterparts. The tax payments of illegal immigrants do not come close to covering the cost they create. He said their preliminary estimates under the Biden administration.

[00:11:34] Again, he did this in January of 24, so almost a year before the election of the reelection of Donald Trump. The illegal immigrant population was pegged at about 12.8 million people. Using the National Academy's estimate of immigrants net fiscal impact by education level. He said we estimate that the lifetime fiscal drain. So taxes paid minus costs for services.

[00:12:05] The lifetime drain for each illegal immigrant is about sixty eight. Thousand dollars. Sixty eight thousand dollars. Although he points out there are some caveats here. Illegal immigrants make extensive use of welfare based on government data. They estimate that fifty nine percent of households headed by illegal immigrants use one or more major welfare program compared to thirty nine percent of households headed by the U.S. born population.

[00:12:35] So fifty nine percent versus thirty nine percent. Based on their use rate of. It's unreal. Based on their use rate of major welfare programs. We estimate that illegal immigrants receive forty two billion dollars in benefits.

[00:12:55] Or about four percent of the total cost of the cash, Medicaid, food and housing programs examined in the study. But this is only a rough approximation because there are limitations to the data. OK. This is one of the things like if you don't ever look. Well, you don't find. Right. If we're not collecting the data makes it very difficult to assess fiscal impacts.

[00:13:24] Illegal immigrants can receive welfare on behalf of U.S. born children. Also, illegal immigrant children can receive school. Guys out in the hall. All right. Don't understand. It's like we work in radio. Sorry. Illegal immigrants can receive welfare on behalf of U.S. born children.

[00:13:47] Illegal immigrant children can receive school lunch, school breakfasts and WIC payments. Women and infants. I think something I forget what it what it stands for, but it's a welfare program. A number of states provide Medicaid to some illegal immigrants and a couple states provide SNAP food assistance.

[00:14:09] Several million illegal immigrants also have work authorization, for example, through DACA, TPS, some asylum applicants. Right. That then if you have the work authorization through like the asylum seeking programs. You could also then get earned income tax credits. The high welfare use of illegal immigrant households is not explained by an unwillingness to work. That's not that's not the issue here. They are willing to work.

[00:14:40] In fact, 94 percent of illegal immigrant households have at least one worker. 94 percent compared to U.S. born households. We're only 73 percent have at least one worker. Right. So they have higher rates of workforce participation than the native born population. However, America's welfare system is designed to help low wage workers with children.

[00:15:09] And that describes a very large share of illegal immigrant households. In addition to consuming welfare, illegal immigration. By the way, what is what do you think is happening here? What like it's this is the same sort of dynamic that occurs with the the taxation on tips argument like for servers. Right. People in restaurants, service workers like that. Waiters, waitresses.

[00:15:37] They they are paid. I forget what it is now. It's like two, three dollars an hour. Right. The minimum wage may be seven fifty, but they get paid like three bucks an hour. Why? Well, because they are declaring tips, which then get taxed. Donald Trump says he wants to get rid of that tax. So it's essentially free income for them. Right. But who is that actually subsidizing? It's subsidizing. The restaurant owners.

[00:16:07] Because they now don't have to pay all of the taxes on the payroll taxes. Right. To contribute to Social Security and whatnot. So they get a break by offering three dollar minimum wage to their employees. They get to dodge those costs. And because the employees are making so little money on the books. They then get to qualify for other types of programs.

[00:16:36] In fact, this is the argument that the left makes regarding, for example, Walmart employees. That we are subsidizing Walmart because they pay their workers so low that they qualify to be on government assistance. And so Walmart is offloading costs onto the taxpayers. The exact same argument applies with illegal immigrants. Same argument. Here's a great idea. Here's a great idea.

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[00:18:20] Again, from testimony that was provided to Congress over a year ago. Over a year ago. And it outlines, based on all of the data that's available, and there are data points that we truly don't know. Like, we don't actually know for certain the, like, for example, the illegal immigration or illegal alien population. We don't know. We have estimates.

[00:18:48] And the Center for Immigration Studies has done its best to, you know, figure this out and calculate the data points. But some of the stuff, they don't collect the data on purpose. So, as to not be able to ascertain the true costs. The director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, Stephen A. Camerata, He says,

[00:19:15] In addition to consuming welfare, illegal immigration makes significant use of public education. Based on average costs per student, the estimated 4 million children of illegal immigrants in public schools created over $68 billion in costs in 2019. The vast majority of those kids are, in fact, U.S.-born kids. Okay? But that's the cost of educating them.

[00:19:45] Use of emergency medical services is another area in which illegal immigrants create significant fiscal costs. Prior research indicates that there are 5.8 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the country in 2019, accounting for a little over, again, remember, this is data before Biden. Before Biden even opened the floodgates. Right?

[00:20:08] That is, 5.8 million uninsured people accounts for more than one-fifth of the total population without health insurance. The cost of providing health care to these people likely costs somewhere in the neighborhood of about $7 billion a year. However, he points out immigrants do pay some taxes. Illegal immigrants pay some taxes.

[00:20:35] However, and then they calculate some of that, like $16 billion Social Security, about $4 billion in Medicaid. However, as the net fiscal drain of $68,000 per person that was cited earlier, the taxes generated are not nearly enough to cover the cost of the services they receive.

[00:21:00] I talked about the difficulty in estimating the total illegal population. In a recent report, the Center for Immigration Studies analyzed customs and border or CPS data and found that there were 49.5 million immigrants, legal and illegal together, in America in October of 2023.

[00:21:28] That is an increase of about 4.5 million from two years prior. And that increase is unprecedented. The illegal population has likely grown to about 12.8 million. All of these numbers represent a net increase when he's running through the population changes.

[00:21:58] These are increases, okay? What else? Oh, welfare programs. Study published in December of 2023. They examined welfare use. You've got the Survey of Income and Protection... Sorry. Survey of Income and Program Participation, or SIP. Okay, this is the report. And the programs included in the analysis are the Earned Income Tax Credit, Supplement Security Income, SSI,

[00:22:27] Temporary Aid to Needy Families, Free and Reduced Price School Lunch and Breakfast, Women, Infants and Children Nutrition Program, Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, also food stamps, Medicaid, and Subsidized and Public Housing. We estimate 59.4% of illegal immigrant households use one or more welfare programs compared to the U.S.-born illegal headed households. They use...

[00:22:56] So if you're comparing to U.S.-born population, illegal headed households use every program, every one of those programs at statistically higher rates, except for SSI, housing, and the TANF, the TANF. Illegal immigrants have especially high use of the Earned Income Tax Credit, food programs, and Medicaid.

[00:23:22] And that's how they get to the $42 billion figure. And there are reasons for this. Several factors contribute to the welfare use being so high. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. They help us process the meaning of life. And our stories are told through images and videos.

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[00:24:47] Oh, he's referencing a story that ran in the top-of-the-hour newscast. He says, So the small business owner owned by an immigrant, so the owner is an immigrant in this news story, says in the story that the Trump policy is scaring Latinos from buying things and coming out of their homes. If you're scared to leave your home,

[00:25:16] then you've done something illegal or have entered this country illegally. Right? Sorry you have to follow the rules. You have nothing to be afraid of unless you've done something illegal. Right? And, yeah, it's one of those things where when I hear these types of stories, and I understand from a business perspective, like, you went and opened a business that caters to a certain population in a certain neighborhood, right? And then this change in immigration enforcement

[00:25:46] has now led to a reduction in your client base. I'm sympathetic to that. Right? Because you saw a need in the market. You came in. You filled the need. You made money doing so. Yeah, sure. However, when you opened the business, you knew going in, right, that this was going to be sort of at the mercy of government policy. And it was an untenable policy.

[00:26:16] It couldn't hold. It was unstable. It would change from administration to administration. And so if you're going in to start a business and you're going to cater to an illegal alien population, you really can't be surprised if the administration changes, a crackdown occurs, a crackdown occurs, and now you've lost business. That should have been baked into your market analysis before you launched the business.

[00:26:45] Again, I can sympathize with your loss of clients and customers. Absolutely. But I kind of feel like you should have, like, had eyes wide open going in, you know? All right, so back to this report from Center for Immigration Studies. There are several factors for why illegal alien populations use welfare at a higher rate than American-born populations.

[00:27:15] Several factors. First, most important, more than half of all illegal immigrant households have at least one U.S.-born child on behalf of whom they can receive the benefits. Okay? That's the hook. Okay? Second, many states offer Medicaid directly to illegal immigrants. And not just the American-born children, but also to any illegal alien.

[00:27:43] Third, there are six states that also offer food stamp benefits to illegal immigrants under certain circumstances. Fourth, illegal immigrant kids have the same eligibility as citizens for free and subsidized school lunch and breakfast, as well as the Women, Infants, Children nutrition program under the federal law. Fifth, several million illegal immigrants have work authorization

[00:28:10] that provides a Social Security number and an earned income tax credit eligibility along with it. This includes those with DACA, the Dreamers, right? As well as the asylum seekers and those granted any kind of a suspension of deportation. All of these factors coupled with the large share of illegal immigrants with modest levels

[00:28:33] of education, which results in lower income, means a lot more of them qualify for the welfare programs. Finally, there is a large welfare bureaucracy whose job it is to help people qualify and navigate the system. Milton Friedman talked about this decades ago, that most of the programs that people think

[00:28:59] of as helping the poor are actually jobs programs for the middle class because they administer these programs. For all the reasons that I just listed, the ban on illegal immigrants directly using most welfare programs is only going to have very modest effects. And tweaking the restrictions is not likely to make much of a difference. If you want to reduce the cost associated with illegal immigrants' use of these types of means-tested

[00:29:29] programs, then you have to enforce the law and reduce the number of illegal immigrants in the country in the first place. If they are allowed to remain, the welfare costs will remain as well. They're connected. You can't divorce them. I mentioned public education. Public schools is one of the areas in which illegal immigration has had the largest impact. Okay?

[00:29:54] A decade ago, Pew Research estimated that there are just under three-quarters of a million illegal immigrants enrolled in public schools and then another 3.2 million U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants in schools. And according to a study, a follow-up study from five years later, they attempted to update that estimate.

[00:30:20] And what they found was that there was somewhere about 4 million children of illegal immigrants in American schools. The National Center for Education Statistics reports that in 2019 through 2020, that school year, the average expenditure per kid, the per pupil cost to educate a child was about $17,000 a year. That was from five years ago. Okay?

[00:30:45] If you use that estimate, that would put the cost of educating these kids at $68 billion. And that is before the current surge or the Biden surge at the border. Right? So when you hear people talking about the cost of education, how they need more money, it

[00:31:09] is driven, a lot of these costs are driven by illegal immigration policy and the refusal of people like Gary Not My Fault McFadden to help enforce it at the local level. It has direct impacts on the costs of our schools. And it always has. All right. That'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast.

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