Shelby, NC officer fired and arrested for punching crazy woman | Hour 2

What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to vpetecleanershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. Speaking of consequences for one's actions, a police officer in Shelby, North Carolinas here west of Charlotte. Here, a police officer has been fired and also was arrested after ring doorbell camera footage went viral of him punching a woman in the face ten times. And we know it's ten times, well because of the video, but also because the woman's family has gone off and retained the famous lawyer Ben Crump. Benjamin Crump who came to town, played the video and counted for everybody. They all counted the punches. So, yes, folks, the circus is well, not in town, but it is close by. Okay, the circus is close by Shelby's our media market here, So there's gonna be a lot of coverage of this case, this story. Right now, I have a lot of questions still. I've watched the video. I've watched it several times. I did not count the punches, so I will take Crump's word for it that there were ten. But I was driving home yesterday after this program and Chris Kroc was filling in for Brett Winterble, and Chris said something I thought was pretty important to keep in mind. You should always keep this stuff in mind, which is what happened before the ring doorbell camera footage. Right we don't know all because the footage begins with the two of them, the officer and the woman named Sherry Moore. The officer's name Carson Hyder, and they're standing sort of on the left side of the frame, and she already has her hands on him, and within about one or two seconds, he takes her to the ground. He pushes her onto the ground. He like, he like, you know, does that little kind of turn drop move kind of thing. He doesn't. I don't think I saw like a leg sweep going on there. But he takes her to the ground and she then begins kicking, and her hands are still flailing all around and he's trying to cofer and she is resisting, which, for some reason, in reading through all of these stories, and I have several of them from all of the local news outlets, for some reason, the word resisting is never included in the description of what occurred. It's just that. He punched her ten times in the head, in the face, in the head end face area because she was resisting. And I thought Chris made a very good point as well yesterday when he pointed out that police officers are not trained to match your level of force. They are going to go above your level of force. They're going to use the minimum amount of force required for a situation. That's hopefully what they do. And you can argue that this was not the minimum amount of force required, but they're not going to match you. They're not going to say, oh, well, okay, so you're only slapping me, so I'm just gonna slap you back. That's not how that works. Remember every single interaction, every single call for service, every single fight, anything, every time a cop is on scene someplace there is a weapon, there is a firearm present. The cop brought the firearm to the call for service, okay, And so when somebody begins resisting and they start laying their hands on you, you do not know their intents, and you also cannot decipher rational intent. If the person you are dealing with is a schizophrenic, bipolar person, which this woman is apparently, you don't know what they're capable of doing. You don't know what they intend to do. They're kind of crazy, right, They're acting crazy. They're behaving in an irrational manner, so you don't know what they're going to do once they start putting their hands on you. That being said, the officer is identified as a twenty two year old, so he's a young guy, young cop. He did have a prior experience with this very same woman. So I would like to see the bodycam footage. I would like to see that what happened before the doorbell camera video got shared online, because that's how this all blew up, right, it was just a ring doorbell footage. I want to know what happened before because that's important context. And I'm not saying that that's going to clear him or convict him. I want to see it, though, as long as we are now being forced to have this conversation and now we're supposed to make some sort of extrapolation about all the police officers in all of the land based on this one incident, this two minute altercation. I would like to know the full context as long as we're going to be extrapolating out everything about it, so bodycam footage. I would also like to see what was the initial call for service? Right who who called in the original nine to one one call, which was apparently for a breaking and entering, Okay, that's why police were there. There was a there was a home b and e occurring that was called in. Who called that in? I mean, I don't need to know the exact person's name, but I'd like to know, like, what were the circumstances around this call for service? Was there some sort of you know, violent component to this was with some he had a door, like kicking a door. So I'm gonna play the audio from this arrest. This is again from the doorbell camera footage, and so some of the and then you're gonna hear some neighbors screaming at the cops, yelling at the cops because he was punching her. I don't have ignor in the house. What are you doing all right. So first thing, she's saying, I don't have a warrant. In other words, I'm not wanted for anything. Right now, she's telling it, I don't have a warrant, nor was I touching a house. So she's denying that she was trying to break and enter right which I assume she would know this only because what the cops probably said, we were called for a breaking an entering. Were you trying to get into that house? So she's denying that she had anything to do with this. She's saying, no, I don't have any warrant. I don't I wasn't touching any house. So deny, deny, deny. And she's already at the very beginning of the video, like I said, she's already got her hands on him, as she says, and then he takes her to the ground. Now she's saying, I don't have a warrant. She just keeps saying this over and over again, I don't. Go. That's the second police officer who comes over and is telling his partner let go because his partner's got her right hand. He's holding her by the wrist on her right hand, and he's and she's like kind of laying on her back by kind of half sitting up, and he's punching her, and the other cop comes in and says, let go, let go, let go. I got her, I got her. No, I don't have a more anything you no, wow, excuse me, excuse me. So you heard the male voice yelling. That's one of the neighbors picked up on the doorbell camera who's yelling at the cops, calling them evil and whatever. Behind right now, you've got two other officers who apparently were also part of the call for service. They have arrived and they're saying, put your hands behind your back, put your hands behind your back. This goes on for a minute and a half. They're telling her to stop resisting and she refuses. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past, transcending generations. 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Let me jump over here and get Travis on the program. Hello Travis, Welcome to Shoe. When I first thought, and actually you addressed it a little bit before I got a chance to ask, it was if you have any listeners out in Cleveland County do they know does Shelby have police bodycam? Because it feels like that would have been the first thing. It's weird to. Me that, yeah, well they should have bodycams. They should. I mean, the state passed the law remember several years ago, that put it in place a requirement for law enforcement officers shall wear and activate a body worn camera, and. There's no option for town to opt out of that. I guess no, no, that was that was state law. And remember they put it in place. I want to say, well, let me see here, I've got the I don't know when this thing was twenty seventeen. Okay, yeah, so it's been around a while, and the state did provide funding for bodycam systems purchases as well, So it would be shocking to meunting. It seems to me like if they're counting the punches, then they're making the argument not that it was unwarranted, but that it was excessive. So it feels like they know that it was probably warranted. So show us the body cam. Right, Well, they fired him, I mean they fired him and then he's been charged the officer house. Well, I'm guessing the lawyer defending the woman knows that it must have been warranted at some level because we're emphasizing what he did and ignoring like one two through or so we're getting the emotional level of it. Right. Sure, I would say that's I would say that's probably piling on. I would I would venture to guess that the lawyer for this woman would argue that it was not warranted and it was excessive. Okay, yeah, I think. I think, well, I don't have everything else that'll go. No, I got you, Travis. I appreciate it. Yeah, I would be. I would be surprised if there is no bodycam footage. I would also be surprised if well, I shouldn't say, but I would be surprised if the officers on scene were not wearing body cameras. I would be. Less surprised or yeah, less unsurprised. Anyway, maybe one of them, maybe they didn't turn them on. Maybe that's why Shelby Police apparently have said that they're not they're not going to disclose the bodycam footage, which that's usually how this goes. They're considered to be personnel records. But then if there's enough public interest or if the you know, the public interest is served by releasing it, then somebody can go to a judge and ask the judge to release it. This was the protocol that was put in place under the twenty seventeen law, which I support. By the way, there were a lot of Democrats and media, but I repeat myself that they were like no, no, no, we should have access to all the bodycam footage all the time. Like, Okay, that's ridiculous, because think about what's on body camera footage, right, Think about what those recordings are. Usually they are interactions with people who are having probably the very worst day of their lives. Right, And that can then be weaponized for clicks, for harassment, for intimidation. Right. You can call the police on somebody you don't like, and then the body camera footage becomes available to you, and then you go and download it, and now you use it to harass and intimidate the person you don't like. Right. So I think they struck a good balance. I do. I think they struck a good balance by saying it's personnel records, but it can be obtainable if a judge warrants it. So, and usually I'm trying to think of a case where a judge has not released the footage, because once a story goes viral like this and becomes you know, this this widely covered that, the judges usually then say, Okay, all this stuff is already out there, and release the footage. He'll look you know, the judge will look at it. He or she will look at the footage first to make sure there isn't anything in there that's, you know, should be protected or not released or whatever, and then they release the footage, and usually that is going to require a petition from someone. Now, it will be interesting if the lawyers for Sherry Moore do not request that footage. I kind of feel like they would unless they believe there's something on there that they don't want the public to see. So I suspect that they would be petitioning a court to get access to the footage. I suspect media will also be petitioning. They probably have already filed such motions in the court to get any body camera footage, and once a judge makes a ruling that it gets released, than the police department will release it again. I feel like this is a good balance in an approach to releasing this kind of footage. But I would like to see it. I think we should probably see what led up to the altercation that has now been widely shown, right, Because what we learn in a lot of these situations is that stuff that is not part of the original release of video is important, does provide context or maybe tells a little bit of a different story or a lot of a different story before. Now, all that being said, the very fact that the Shelby Police Department fired the officer tells me that there probably isn't anything on the bodycam footage that is going to make this police officer look any better, you know, usually like turning around and firing a cop that fast and then have a charge thrown on him, Like that's that's not usual. Right now, that being said, I kind of feel like maybe he should, the officer should face the same level of quote justice. I know everybody that's around the sherry More family right now is demanding justice and such, maybe the same amount of justice that repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offenders get. How about that? So in other words, like plead it down, no time served, nothing on his record, maybe something like that, Or is there like a different level. Of justice you want for the officer? There is spoiler alert, there is Let me jump over and get Marty on the program. Hello Marty, welcome to the show. I just want to let you know I've been listening to your show, your program, your stations years. By the way, my son Party, I am a former policeman and I did take training for hostage negotiations so I'm looking at this situation. First of all, Benjamin Trump is a troublemaker, and I'm going to refer to you now to something which is very similar to Rodney King case in Los Angeles. Are you wear that? Yes? I am. Okay, we're supposedly filming out that the cops were beating up Rodney King. A lot of people in the local area started riding, and this was Rodney King was the person who said, can't we all get together? Whatever? Live peacefull you. Can we all just get along? Can we all just get along? And he was arrested later on for beating up his wife. But friends of mine who are in the know, said that the real the DeLong tape was deleted and so it almost got the tops whatever they were doing to defend themself. Now with this case here, I was a cop for twenty years in New York's and two of the most dangerous things that policemen go on is family disputes and adp psychos. Now, I think Benjamin Crump said that this woman was paranoid, schizophrenic, that she was bipolar people. A lot of times the people who attack cops, they are schizophrenic, split personality, bipolar, and they fantasize that this cop is somebody that they know and had wronged them. Also, I can't believe that the cop in question woke up in the morning and said, I'm going to beat up some woman because I want to get fired. I really don't think that was the case. Can you tell me the jurisdiction. How many people are in that police department? Oh, I don't know. It's not a very large department though. Okay, I'm going to look it up later on the computer. But the thing is, it's like the old story man bites the dog. That's news. Benjamin Crump is over there fanning the flames of racial dissension. I was on a situation very similar. I'm six three, and we had a subdual man who another cop who we both retired. Now anyway, it was this psycho. He was going crazy and this guy, George, I'm not going to tell you his last night, he was punching this guy in the stomach, which they don't teach in academy. Anyway, he was punching the guy in the stomach. Guy was a big guy, and the guy was laughing, and George, who's a cop, started crying. What I did. I'm pretty good with my legs, and I took the man down and a leg lock without hurting him whatever. Also the Elinor Bumper's case where she came a some cops with a bunch of knives and they had to shoot her and kill her, and the media had as she was a harmless grandmother. Yeah, well you know you could be. You could be a grandmother at thirty five. So I don't like that age distinction. But this thing here, I have a tendency to lean towards the cop. I don't know if do you have a police academy in North Carolina to each department trained the people. Do you have a central academy. I believe they trained their own, but I don't know if Shelby has its own. I mean there's also a state certification if I recall, but I don't know the training process. When I went to our academy, we had two items to use, which was the rubber billy and the night stick. And I've taken down many people who are going to kick my butt with the night stick, which I also called the truth stick because it taught these bad guys the truth. The truth is when you tell me that you're going to kick my butt. You better like the hospital because that's where you're going next. Well, and I will tell you I knew a former cop from LA at the time of the Rodney King riots. He said before that it was generally well understood rule between the criminals and the cops that if you ran from the cops, then they would beat you. That was always understood until the Rodney King incident. Right, And Rodney King was, you know, high on PCP and all this, and so he would not he would not be subdued because he was just whacked down on drugs and so he was. He just kept getting up, he kept resisting in all of this. And that's the footage that everybody saw. And that's why I want to see more of the I want to see the body cam footage, Marty. I do appreciate the call. I got to move on. I appreciate it. Thanks, thanks for your service up there in New York. From the text line, I have two different chrises basically saying the same thing. He says, at some point you have to realize that he stopped being a cop and became an attacker. Ten punches. He went well above necessary force to take control of the situation. Then, So on that front, I've not made the argument that the cop should have punched her ten times. You've not heard me make that argument. The fact that the police chief called it disturbing and unacceptable and fired him and then they charged him with a misdemeanor tells you that the law enforcement agency doesn't think that this was warranted either. So I'm not making a defense of that, okay, just to be clear. And then another Chris who says she was asking what are the charges? Okay, Chris, that is a lie. She was not asking what are the charges. She was saying, I don't have a warrant. I don't have any warrants. That's what she was saying. In other words, I'm not wanted for anything. And then she said she didn't touch the house, So she is simply denying any wrongdoing. That's what she was doing. She was not asked what are the charges? And then he just beat her again. The video, the only video we have, begins with her with hands on the cop. That's how the video starts, and then when he takes her to the ground within two seconds in the video, then we see she's kicking, she's resisting. She's like her arms are flailing around. Two officers could not get cuffs on that woman, So I don't know about controlling the situation. He said nothing, but he wasn't saying nothing. He was saying, put your hands behind your back. Would you like it if it was your freaking daughter? You redneck butthole? Now I'm a redneck? Okay? She has mental health issues? Duh? Yes, she's a paranoid, schizophrenic and bipolar. Correct. Do you think that that might have any kind of an impact in the way that the incident unfolded. Did the officer know that? And here's the other thing. Did she say that she had mental health issues before? No? Yeah, I'll get into that in a minute. The point of all of this for me is that there is always a rush to judge. There's always a rush to create a narrative and then have it calcified, and the arrival of one Benjamin Crump is precisely part of that operation. Okay. For example, if media goes to a court and says we want the body cam footage and Crump fights it, that will be instructive. I would expect them to want all footage released so they get a full picture of what happened. I want to see the full picture. Now. Again, the cop has already been fired. He already picked up a charge, a misdemeanor assault charge for this, so like his his law enforcement days with Shelby are done now. Of course, the family of Sherry Moore, they're demanding that he'd be charged with a felony. They want more charges. We want what you want to send this guy to prison for like fifteen years or something. That's ridiculous. Okay, that's ridiculous. I would not advocate sending her to prison for fifteen years for laying hands on the cop for assaulting the cop, which, by the way, those charges got dropped, which I'm kind of curious about. Like, so if I if I punch a cop and then the cop punches me, then I get my charges dropped? Is that how that works? Again, maybe there's something or a lot of somethings on the bodycam footage that make this look a lot worse for the officer. I would like to see that, but I am withholding. You know, judgment about the entire higher issue until I can see all of the information, and okay, you know, maybe that doesn't make me as good of a talk show host as I could be, because I should be out here just you know, planting a flag in the ground. I don't have, like there's no value for me to do that. I would prefer to have more information. So this is now fifty seconds into a two minute video clip. This is all we see is the two minute video clip from the doorbell doorbell camera. And at this point, now you've got other officers, two other officers that have arrived to help the first two. Or girl. Excuse me, no, excuse me, excuse me? Can you excuse excuse me? You hear the cuffs click. That's one set of handcuffs on her right wrist, and as far as I can tell, they never get the other handcuffed. With you put your hand behind your by. I don't have a war with your hand. Health or something. Can you take me into mental health or something. That's the first time she says anything about having a mental health episode or crisis or anything. That's the first time after she's being told to put her hands behind her back, after the after the confrontation, that's the first time that we hear anything. Now, maybe she told the original officer, but we don't know that because we don't have the body cam footage right, we don't know what she may have said to him. Now, if she had said that to him earlier than the doorbell footage, that would be important information. And maybe the cop knew that she was having this mental health episode and didn't care. We don't know, We don't know. I'm not on my medication. Now she's saying, I'm not on any medication. Call my daddy. I don't look a name, Hue crisis, Tell my daddy. Now she's saying, call the crisis center, call my daddy. I'm not on medication. I'm not on medication. Like callum, excuse me. Excuse me. For the last minute, almost minute, she's just standing there. The cops are surrounding her. They've not cuffed her behind her back, and now they're behaving as if this person maybe having some mental health episode. Now all of a sudden, it may don't on these four officers that this woman is not in her right mind. That's what it looks like to me. I really do hope that they release more of the bodycam footage so we get a fuller context of what led up to this, What was the call, what was the initial interaction. That's not to justify what the cop did. I just want more information before this whole poop storm gets all swirled up by the lawyers that just parachuted into town. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecallanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.