Rep. Dan Bishop on Biden's pardon (12-02-2024--Hour3)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalendershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] I want to welcome to the program Congressman Dan Bishop. He's a short-timer up there on Capitol Hill now. Congressman, how are you?

[00:00:36] I'm great, Pete. Happy Thanksgiving, I guess, a day or two ago.

[00:00:40] Yes, sir. To you and your family as well. So you are also a trained, schooled lawyer. And so I'm curious, what did you make of the pardon?

[00:00:51] Were you expecting it? And you guys have been doing work trying to get a lot of this information out via the congressional committees and such.

[00:00:58] So were you expecting the pardon to come and did you expect it to come when it did?

[00:01:05] I personally always believed that Joe Biden would pardon Hunter.

[00:01:11] And now, based on everything he said, it should have been the last thing that one would believe.

[00:01:17] But I was confident that would happen. It is the most interesting thing to me about it is that it validates everything that people on the center right and people who have been supporters of President Trump have said for the last several years.

[00:01:35] In other words, we've been condemned by legacy media, by the Biden administration, by everybody on the left, for being against democracy if we pointed out how the administrative state, the FBI, the DOJ, the intelligence community, has been weaponized against people for political reasons.

[00:01:59] That the prosecutions of President Trump were politicized in their essence.

[00:02:03] But Biden has suddenly turned 180 and embraced that concept to say that, and of course, Hunter is a criminal.

[00:02:12] He has done things that were regularly prosecuted, income tax evasion, illegal gun purchasing practices.

[00:02:23] But suddenly it is now acceptable to say that they fear he and President Biden fears politicized actions and therefore is going to render this pardon.

[00:02:34] So so be it. I'm not surprised by it.

[00:02:36] But I think it does give the lie to these these condemnations, not just disagreements, but condemnations of people as completely beyond the pale of civilized society.

[00:02:50] Right. And then the fact that the 10 year or 11 year almost immunity window starts precisely when he went to work on the board.

[00:03:00] And I use that term work very, very loosely for Burisma, which would also indicate that the window that the Congress was that the Republicans in Congress were investigating that lines up with that as well.

[00:03:13] Now, that is a horse of a different color.

[00:03:16] Sure. So as a political article said, said I was glancing at earlier as a pardons, a DOJ pardon attorney.

[00:03:26] That's a regular gig over there.

[00:03:28] Someone who was there from like 1990, 1997 said there's the only precedent for a pardon of this breath is the pardon.

[00:03:38] And of course, Joe Biden's done that in wiping off whatever actions he may have committed, charged or uncharged since 2014, over a decade.

[00:03:55] And now that looks like it is designed to cloak and move off the table of investigation.

[00:04:05] Anything Joe Biden or anyone close to him may have done in connection with Ukraine.

[00:04:12] All of that time is as one person said in an article that the time that Joe Biden became, for lack of a better term, the viceroy of Ukraine.

[00:04:22] So that seems that that is an extraordinary.

[00:04:25] So I did. I'm not surprised that he pardoned Hunter for the gun crime and the tax evasion.

[00:04:30] But it is sort of interesting that he gave him this blanket decade long remittator.

[00:04:38] Yeah. What? So I don't know, maybe you can answer this because I'm unclear and I've seen different people weigh in on it.

[00:04:45] Does this now mean that he cannot claim Fifth Amendment protections?

[00:04:50] And so he could be compelled to testify on things?

[00:04:55] I've seen many people claim that.

[00:04:57] I can't tell you off the top of my head for certain whether that is legally sound.

[00:05:02] I will say that whenever someone has not been subject to criminal jeopardy, they generally have not been allowed to refuse to testify.

[00:05:11] So as a general proposition, that sort of idea is valid.

[00:05:17] Whether or not it works to Hunter's advantage or disadvantage, it may also limit the number of investigations that can be undertaken.

[00:05:26] You'd have to have, if you've got a predicate to go investigate someone else and Hunter is a material witness, I don't think he could resist.

[00:05:35] But you couldn't carry on an adequately predicated investigation against Hunter with respect to any of the things he's been pardoned for.

[00:05:44] Right.

[00:05:44] It could cut both ways.

[00:05:45] Well, and also as a Republican, you've got to be careful not to pounce or seize, as I understand it.

[00:05:52] That's a lot of Republicans doing that today, pouncing on this.

[00:05:56] So that's the only issue is whether Republicans pounce.

[00:05:59] Right.

[00:05:59] Right.

[00:06:00] So there's a there's also this idea.

[00:06:03] I'm going to read to you a quick tweet from a fellow by the name of A.G. Hamilton.

[00:06:07] You've probably seen his stuff on Twitter.

[00:06:09] He said a lot of us pointed out the problem with the party that wanted to change every rule that didn't go their way, whether it was the Electoral College, the filibuster, size of the Supreme Court, that they ran on saving democracy because it was clear to everybody like us that it was never principled.

[00:06:26] And so this is the latest verification of it.

[00:06:28] And I think that there may be some sort of silver lining to this, which is that not only is Biden's legacy now just in ruin, but I got to believe also that this maybe frees up some people to take a different look at the Biden family and the way it has been operating, particularly if more pardons come down the pike.

[00:06:52] So, like, what do you think?

[00:06:54] Do you think that this this gives cover to more journalists that now it's OK to go to go look at this stuff?

[00:07:01] Yes.

[00:07:01] It's a little bit like the way the scales fell from the eyes when people began to acknowledge that Joe Biden was not really sharp and on top of things and a savant any longer.

[00:07:14] I do think things develop as a consequence of that.

[00:07:18] I think there could be a couple of things.

[00:07:20] I actually believe that we really do need institutional reform.

[00:07:26] These ideas that, as I mentioned earlier, certain institutions, the DOJ and the intelligence community and the FBI are beyond reproach.

[00:07:38] That is sort of almost a religious fervor about that from the left may fall away now that Biden has protested that he believes there's political targeting, regardless whether in that particular instance there is.

[00:07:54] I think it does sort of level the field and allow people from both sides of the political spectrum to take a hard look at some of this.

[00:08:01] And does it change people who are devoted to Joe Biden and have insisted on his being a paragon of virtue?

[00:08:09] I don't know.

[00:08:10] I'm a little less hopeful for that, perhaps.

[00:08:14] Yeah.

[00:08:15] Yeah, I see the loving dad narrative being promulgated on this.

[00:08:20] And I don't know if it lands the way that the purveyors think it does.

[00:08:24] But finally, I want to ask you, you mentioned institutional reforms.

[00:08:31] Kash Patel, nominated to be the FBI director.

[00:08:34] Do you know him?

[00:08:35] Have you had any dealings with him?

[00:08:37] And what do you know about him?

[00:08:39] I do know him.

[00:08:40] I've gotten known him not terribly well.

[00:08:43] We're not friends, but I've met him a number of occasions.

[00:08:45] He is knowledgeable.

[00:08:47] You know, the funny thing is people are saying he's not experienced.

[00:08:50] I can't imagine anybody who is more experienced.

[00:08:53] He has been inside all of it.

[00:08:55] You know, Chief of Staff and Department of Defense under an acting secretary.

[00:09:00] He was Devin Nunes' right hand when the deep state tried to get Nunes.

[00:09:07] He's just done a – he's been a prosecutor.

[00:09:09] He's been a defense attorney.

[00:09:11] Somebody said – at the Wall Street Journal, I think he said he's never been an FBI agent.

[00:09:14] Well, I did a quick ask to Grok whether any FBI director has been an agent.

[00:09:21] And there was one guy I never heard of in the early 70s.

[00:09:24] But Robert Mueller had never been an agent.

[00:09:27] James Comey had never been an agent.

[00:09:29] Chris Ray had never been an agent.

[00:09:30] It's just crazy.

[00:09:31] So what they really mean when they're saying that is he hasn't been in the establishment.

[00:09:36] He's not been captive to the establishment, and he's not in awe of the institution.

[00:09:42] Therefore, he might substantially change things.

[00:09:46] And so that is driving this idea that he doesn't have experience.

[00:09:51] I think he's probably got better experience than any prior recent candidate for the job.

[00:09:56] And the most important thing of all is everything we've watched, Donald Trump appears to have decided that no more than Mr. Nice Guy.

[00:10:07] We are going to deal with the institutional corruption.

[00:10:12] A lot of times you see it expressed in these – in legacy media is the independence of the Justice Department and the FBI.

[00:10:19] They're not independent things unto themselves, powers unto themselves.

[00:10:24] They are executive agencies under the control and power – and control and management of the president of the United States.

[00:10:31] And Kash Patel's going to deliver that message into the FBI.

[00:10:36] I think it's a fantastic nomination.

[00:10:39] And before I let you go real quick, do you have any plans now that your term is coming to an end?

[00:10:46] You were not successful in the AG run.

[00:10:48] Do you have any plans, any irons in the fire, or are you going out to pasture?

[00:10:54] You know, I was disappointed to lose, Pete, but I will tell you that I'm not going out in any pastures.

[00:11:02] I've got a few irons in the fire and looking into a couple of things that's premature to say specifically.

[00:11:09] But one thing about losing is that it is a whole new vista and new opportunities to go and work.

[00:11:16] And I'm going to be in the cause and continuing to promote freedom and fight against censorship and in favor of the First Amendment and to advance the ball and restore America, make America great again.

[00:11:33] I think you have a very important skill set that would be sorely lacking if you were to retire.

[00:11:39] So for purely selfish reasons, I'm glad to hear you're working on something.

[00:11:42] So best, very kind. Great to talk to you.

[00:11:46] All right. I appreciate it. Dan Bishop. Thanks, sir.

[00:11:49] All right. That's Congressman Dan Bishop.

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[00:12:51] That's createavideo.com.

[00:12:53] Let me go.

[00:12:54] I got a couple of more messages here.

[00:12:57] Mark says, Government Gangsters by Kash Patel.

[00:13:01] Reading it now.

[00:13:04] Yeah, so I think that I just I don't remember what all he covers, but I gotta believe he covers some of the Biden stuff in there.

[00:13:13] Um, I'm not hearing the regular, this is from Russ who says, I'm not hearing from the regular cast of trolls since the election.

[00:13:22] It's weird.

[00:13:24] I think Mike called Brett to tell him how norm-breaking a cabinet pick was, and I did hear Brian telling Vince that he hoped Trump got everything he wanted so it would crush all the poor and middle-class Trump voters, because that's what they deserve for voting against their own interests.

[00:13:39] But other than that, it's been pretty quiet.

[00:13:41] Yeah, I did catch Brian, I didn't hear Mike's call to Brett, but I did hear, um, Brian and his call.

[00:13:49] Look, this is a difficult time for, uh, for Harris supporters, for Democrats in general.

[00:13:55] It's a difficult time for them.

[00:13:58] Um, you know, their whole, their whole thing was this, you know, hope, dare I call it that, um, that Harris was going to win.

[00:14:08] And, you know, they, they were told the same thing that we were told about the polling, right?

[00:14:14] It's like pulling for the Panthers.

[00:14:16] And in the fourth quarter, you're like, oh my gosh, we're going to win this.

[00:14:21] No, you're not.

[00:14:22] See, that's, and then, then you lose and you're crushed.

[00:14:28] And so you got to find some other way to go on attack.

[00:14:32] And so the cabinet picks is, that's the way.

[00:14:35] Why do you think there's so much attention being paid to all of Trump's picks right now?

[00:14:40] It's precisely for this reason is that they don't really feel like doing any kind of introspection because they're right and we're wrong.

[00:14:48] And so therefore, they don't need to really do any kind of introspection.

[00:14:52] And anybody that comes along that offers up anything close to introspection on it gets shouted down.

[00:15:01] I did see there was a, uh, well, here we go.

[00:15:03] So this is what we are left with in the wake of the pardon.

[00:15:06] This is a Washington Post assignment editor.

[00:15:10] This is an editor at the Washington Post.

[00:15:13] Biden pardoning Hunter feels incredibly human and relatable.

[00:15:17] I expect most of the hand-wringing commentary about norms and precedents like that's likely to follow will feel extra irrelevant for not dwelling on this.

[00:15:27] So in other words, talk about how it's a humanizing thing.

[00:15:31] It's relatable.

[00:15:33] He's being vulnerable.

[00:15:36] Don't you see?

[00:15:36] Now he's corrupt.

[00:15:38] It's corruption.

[00:15:40] You don't give a pass to that kind of stuff.

[00:15:42] This is how you got Trump.

[00:15:45] Trump.

[00:15:46] It's how you got Trump again.

[00:15:48] When you guys refuse to acknowledge this stuff, it drives half the country to the point where they're like, you know what?

[00:15:57] Burn it down.

[00:15:58] Yeah.

[00:15:59] Dismantle the FBI.

[00:16:00] Just take it apart.

[00:16:01] Move it all over.

[00:16:02] We don't even care anymore.

[00:16:03] You guys have gone nuts.

[00:16:05] All right.

[00:16:05] Hey, real quick.

[00:16:06] If you would like to get your product or service in front of about 10,000 people multiple times a day, send me an email at Pete at the Pete Calendar Show dot com and ask me about advertising.

[00:16:17] It's super affordable.

[00:16:18] It's baked into this podcast forever.

[00:16:20] And podcasts have a higher conversion rate than other social media platforms, making it the best bang for your buck.

[00:16:26] Send me a message.

[00:16:27] Pete at the Pete Calendar Show dot com.

[00:16:29] And I can show you how it works.

[00:16:30] Run the numbers with you.

[00:16:31] Again, that's Pete at the Pete Calendar Show dot com.

[00:16:35] Let me read to you the statement from Eric Holder, the former wingman for Obama.

[00:16:44] A.K.A.

[00:16:45] The Attorney General.

[00:16:46] I heard somebody make a point.

[00:16:48] Maybe I think it might have been Mick Mulvaney this morning on with Bo and Beth on Good Morning, BT.

[00:16:54] I think.

[00:16:55] Mick said he's the former chief of staff for Donald Trump.

[00:16:59] He pointed out how John F. Kennedy.

[00:17:03] Appointed his brother.

[00:17:05] As Attorney General.

[00:17:08] Right.

[00:17:09] Like this idea that attorneys general are somehow not loyalists to the president is absurd.

[00:17:16] And Eric Holder.

[00:17:18] It is like a prime example of this literally called.

[00:17:23] By Obama.

[00:17:25] His wingman.

[00:17:26] Right.

[00:17:26] Obama called him that I didn't.

[00:17:29] Obama did.

[00:17:31] So here's what Eric Holder said.

[00:17:33] About the pardons.

[00:17:35] Here's the reality.

[00:17:37] Any time anybody tells you, get ready for some BS because here it comes.

[00:17:43] No U.S. attorney would have charged this case given the underlying facts.

[00:17:47] After a five year investigation, the facts as discovered only made that clear.

[00:17:52] Had his name been Joe Smith, the resolution would have been fundamentally and more fairly

[00:17:57] a declination.

[00:17:59] No.

[00:18:00] That's not true.

[00:18:02] People are prosecuted all the time for the types of things that Hunter Biden was actually

[00:18:07] convicted on.

[00:18:08] Two of them.

[00:18:09] Right.

[00:18:09] He was he pleaded guilty to one of them, the tax evasion stuff.

[00:18:12] People are sentenced and they're charged and tried and sentenced all the time for that

[00:18:18] kind of stuff.

[00:18:20] By the way, standard disclaimer.

[00:18:24] I love the IRS, all of their agents.

[00:18:26] They never make any mistakes.

[00:18:27] OK, so the other one is the gun charge and people get charged with that all the time,

[00:18:34] too.

[00:18:34] But I guess it's good to know that you don't want to prosecute gun charges anymore.

[00:18:40] No more gun crimes.

[00:18:41] Is that right?

[00:18:44] And the reason why it took so long was because the DOJ slow walked the entire thing and then

[00:18:49] tried to give a sweetheart deal that wasn't just a plea agreement for the gun charge in

[00:18:55] Delaware.

[00:18:56] No, it was an immunity for any other potential crimes ever.

[00:19:02] Much like the pardon.

[00:19:04] And the judge was like, wait a minute, why would you be giving immunity for all sorts of

[00:19:08] other crimes that have nothing to do with this?

[00:19:10] Is that standard?

[00:19:11] Are you aware of any other example that's similar in nature?

[00:19:14] And they were like, no.

[00:19:15] No.

[00:19:16] And the whole thing fell apart because Biden demanded his Biden and his team demanded that

[00:19:24] the immunity for all other prosecutions be part of the gun case.

[00:19:29] And had the judge not asked about the terms of the deal, that would have been the plea

[00:19:36] agreement.

[00:19:36] And so Biden would not have had to pardon his son.

[00:19:41] That's the point.

[00:19:42] That was always the point, was to avoid jamming up dad in his reelection bid.

[00:19:51] So then Holder says the pardon was warranted.

[00:19:54] Ask yourself a vastly more important question.

[00:19:58] Do you really think Kash Patel is qualified to lead the world's preeminent law enforcement

[00:20:02] investigative organization?

[00:20:04] Obvious answer, hell no.

[00:20:05] That's, you see what's happening.

[00:20:08] There are two points of conflation.

[00:20:10] Number one is this conflation with Kash Patel's nomination.

[00:20:16] That somehow or another that forced Biden to do the pardon.

[00:20:21] Well, we know that's not true based on the NBC report.

[00:20:24] The NBC report is that they were talking about publicly saying no pardon, but always keeping

[00:20:30] the option on the table back in June.

[00:20:33] They said that.

[00:20:35] So Kash Patel's got nothing to do with this.

[00:20:37] Number two, the conflation is that the gun charge and the tax evasion charge somehow is

[00:20:48] morphed and conflated with every other potential probe.

[00:20:54] All the Burisma stuff, the CEFC Chinese energy company stuff, like all of these other dealings

[00:21:01] are somehow thrown in with the gun charge and the tax evasion.

[00:21:07] And that's not the case either.

[00:21:11] Immunity from everything was in the plea deal for Hunter that the judge rejected.

[00:21:15] They tried to take care of it for him.

[00:21:18] The only reason Biden had to do this was because the judge recognized what was happening.

[00:21:29] And the government people, they fumbled like Chuba Hubbard in yesterday's game.

[00:21:39] I know it's awful.

[00:21:42] Just awful.

[00:21:43] Mark Penn, the past advisor to President Clinton and Hillary Clinton, he called it a disgraceful

[00:21:49] pardon.

[00:21:49] He said this was not a pardon of just Hunter Biden, but of Joe Biden himself, as his son

[00:21:55] ran a scheme with Joe's brother, Jim, to shake down adversaries for more than $20 million

[00:22:02] and then didn't even pay taxes on it.

[00:22:05] And the loot was distributed to the family members, even to grandkids.

[00:22:10] And this is yet another of the many issues the American public was shamefully gaslit over.

[00:22:16] Biden, of course, falsely claimed that he would not pardon his son.

[00:22:20] And so what else was Biden falsely saying before the election that he would have done

[00:22:24] had he been elected?

[00:22:26] We will never know, but we can sure guess.

[00:22:29] That's from Mark Penn.

[00:22:33] That name means something to me, I guess, and to anybody else who remembers the Clinton years.

[00:22:39] It's Ezra Klein, New York Times columnist, podcaster, says it's terrible politics and precedent.

[00:22:47] But I'm going to be honest and say that the Trump team has been brutally clear they want

[00:22:52] revenge on their enemies.

[00:22:53] They are obsessed with Hunter in particular, and that would weigh like hell on me if I were

[00:22:58] his father and could protect him.

[00:22:59] The politics and precedent are very bad.

[00:23:02] There's no getting around that.

[00:23:03] I think from Biden's perspective, his political reputation is largely torched.

[00:23:08] He's taken most of the blame for Harris's loss.

[00:23:11] There's little left for him to protect except Hunter.

[00:23:17] Oh, he didn't want to do it.

[00:23:18] See, he just didn't want to do it.

[00:23:20] That's why they were talking about lying about it back in June before the conviction.

[00:23:26] Right.

[00:23:27] Okay.

[00:23:30] All right, let me get Ray on real quick.

[00:23:32] Hello, Ray.

[00:23:32] Welcome to the program.

[00:23:34] Hello, Pete.

[00:23:35] How you doing?

[00:23:35] Hey, I'm good, man.

[00:23:36] What's up?

[00:23:36] Well, I just thanks for taking my call.

[00:23:40] I just had a couple questions about this Article 5 convention.

[00:23:43] You said North Carolina went for today, I believe.

[00:23:50] I think they just signed off on a resolution to take it up.

[00:23:54] Is that correct?

[00:23:55] They signed a resolution to participate, to call for it.

[00:23:59] So is it a done deal that we're on board with it in North Carolina?

[00:24:03] Yes.

[00:24:04] That's my understanding, is that it passed the House.

[00:24:05] It's been hung up in the Rules Committee for a long time, and it made its way.

[00:24:10] From what I understand, I have not been able to get confirmation that the resolution did pass the Senate.

[00:24:15] That's the report that I saw, but I've not laid eyes on it myself.

[00:24:18] But I saw a report that the Senate did pass the resolution.

[00:24:23] Okay, so that, all right.

[00:24:26] The second question, my understanding is that the Founding Fathers originally meant for the senators to be sent to Washington by each individual state instead of direct elections.

[00:24:41] And they changed that like 100 years ago or somewhere thereabouts.

[00:24:46] And that 100 years ago or thereabouts that I'm talking about, was that changed with the Constitutional Convention back then?

[00:24:54] No.

[00:24:54] No.

[00:24:55] So there are two ways to amend the U.S. Constitution.

[00:24:58] One is through a convention of states, which has never been done.

[00:25:03] There was one that came close in like the 80s.

[00:25:08] And then the other method is for Congress to propose a constitutional amendment and then have the states ratify that.

[00:25:15] And then you have to clear that bar.

[00:25:17] I think it's three-quarters of the states have to approve the amendment.

[00:25:24] And that's how the direct elections, that's how the Constitution has been amended in every instance.

[00:25:29] It originates from Congress.

[00:25:31] So people who are afraid of a convention of states have to recognize that we basically are in a convention of states all the time when Congress is in session.

[00:25:40] Because any of them can propose constitutional amendments, which would then have to be ratified by the requisite number of states.

[00:25:49] Yeah, I've heard some people I like, one person in particular I like listening to, I won't mention his name, but he's afraid that starting the Article 5 Convention of States will open up a can of worms we don't want.

[00:26:03] But I tend to believe with a lot of other people that it won't.

[00:26:07] There's too many safeguards there.

[00:26:09] Yeah, so the safeguards exist currently, right?

[00:26:13] The safeguards are for, that's why you don't see constitutional amendments run very often because it is such a high bar to get over.

[00:26:20] This theory or this, I mean, I consider it to be fear-mongering.

[00:26:25] The concept of a runaway convention is what that's called.

[00:26:28] I don't believe that to be a legitimate fear because the state legislatures appoint their delegates.

[00:26:36] And they, like the North Carolina Resolution, enumerates these are the issues we want you working on.

[00:26:42] And if the convention delegates start running far afield from those enumerated issues, then the legislature can recall their delegates and bring them back.

[00:26:53] So that's the first thing.

[00:26:55] The second thing is that every state has one vote in the Convention of States.

[00:27:00] So they're all going to be able to make their proposals and then get them voted up or down.

[00:27:06] And so what clears out of that convention then still needs to come back for ratification through the normal process.

[00:27:13] So if you don't believe, like if you think that you're going to lose Second Amendment gun rights, well then why wouldn't you be afraid you're going to lose them with a constitutional amendment to repeal the Second Amendment right now?

[00:27:23] Right?

[00:27:24] Right?

[00:27:24] Because Congress can propose a repeal of the Second Amendment right now, but they don't.

[00:27:28] So why do we think that a Convention of States would somehow lead to that passage when it wouldn't otherwise?

[00:27:36] That's a good point, Pete.

[00:27:38] Listen, I appreciate you answering that for me.

[00:27:40] Yes, sir.

[00:27:41] No, absolutely.

[00:27:42] Have a good day.

[00:27:42] Yeah, man.

[00:27:43] You too, Ray.

[00:27:43] I appreciate the call.

[00:27:45] Yeah, I've supported the Convention of States concept and the project for, gosh, I don't know, 15 years.

[00:27:55] That's how long it takes.

[00:27:57] I think they're now at somewhere because they have to hit a certain – there are two numbers, and I forget offhand what the numbers are.

[00:28:04] One is for calling the Convention, and then one is for – I think it's three-fifths of the states, so that's like 32 or something or 35, have to call the – they all have to agree to call the Convention.

[00:28:18] And here's the thing.

[00:28:19] When you get close to calling it, when you actually get to the point where enough states are about to call the Convention, usually Congress reacts.

[00:28:29] Congress will at that point say, okay, okay, like, for example, term limits.

[00:28:34] That's one of the issues that the Convention of States has enumerated – these resolutions have enumerated because it's a very similar resolution that has been adopted in all of these states so far.

[00:28:45] And one of them is term limits.

[00:28:47] And so Congress may be forced to pick up that issue and act on it themselves rather than let the states do it.

[00:28:59] That's what happened in the 80s.

[00:29:02] So they moved ahead and did something that – I forget what the issue was.

[00:29:05] They went ahead and did it when the states became – I think they fell one state short, Montana.

[00:29:09] And it was one guy in the Montana legislature who flipped at the last minute so it didn't pass.

[00:29:14] The resolution didn't pass.

[00:29:15] And Congress was like, okay, okay, we'll move on this thing that you guys are trying to call the Convention over.

[00:29:20] So, yeah, there is a benefit to applying that pressure.

[00:29:24] All right, that'll do it for this episode.

[00:29:26] Thank you so much for listening.

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