REINing in NC government (04-01-2025--Hour1)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalendershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] I want to welcome to the program Andrew Dunn, and he is an op-ed contributor over at the Charlotte Observer. He's also the publisher of Longleaf Politics. He joins us every Tuesday at noon. Andrew, you doing all right, sir? I am. Good to be with you. And hey, if you're looking for investors on a purchase in Greenland, I'm in. Okay. Hey, well, I suspect your contribution might be equivalent to mine, which is like $20. How much can I buy Greenland for? Yeah.

[00:00:56] What does $20 get me? All right, so let's talk about an effort that's up in Raleigh, but it's also, I've heard this idea kicked around at the national level as well. And you wrote about this for your piece at the Charlotte Observer about, well, what the left is calling a power grab, but it doesn't need to be a partisan thing.

[00:01:19] Like this REINS Act, R-E-I-N-S, the REINS Act. You say it's actually, it's not really a power grab, it's Republicans doing the right thing. Yeah, that's exactly right. So the REINS Act is the brainchild of Representative Alan Chester out of Nash County. He's a real smart guy. I had the chance to talk to him not too long ago.

[00:01:43] But basically, it wants to right-size the relationship between the executive branch and the legislative branch on important things that are coming out. So all of the executive branch positions, that's the governor, but it's also Secretary of State, the treasurer, et cetera, et cetera, all the way on down the list. They all have the ability to implement regulations that execute the laws that the General Assembly passes.

[00:02:10] And so what the REINS Act does is basically says, hey, if you want to implement a regulation that's going to have an impact of more than a million dollars, the General Assembly wants to take a look at it first and sign off on that. Basically, what it's trying to do is prevent the executive branch from essentially passing laws under the guise of legislation.

[00:02:33] And we're really not talking about a whole lot of regulations that would fit that criteria. So it's really only the big-ticket ones. And we're talking, you know, I've seen some estimates as high as 60 a year, but the updated numbers I'm getting is it's probably only going to be like 10 to 15 per year. So we're not talking about a huge change in process.

[00:02:57] But for stuff that's going to really make an impact on people and businesses in North Carolina, the General Assembly just wants to add some accountability to that. So it doesn't sound like this is as big of a problem at the state level as it is at the national level, where you've got these, you know, unelected bureaucrats that are empowered probably through poorly constructed law or by abuse,

[00:03:20] that they start making rules that are beyond the scope of what Congress actually wanted. That's exactly right. Not as big a problem at the state level, but still, you know, worth keeping an eye on. I'm definitely more excited about the prospect of something like this passing at the federal level. And some of it is because the executive branch agencies at the federal level have gotten, you know, too bold in what they're trying to do.

[00:03:49] But some of it is the fault of Congress and previous Congresses actually delegating their authority to the executive branch. I mean, there was an era when so many laws were put together where it basically said, all right, executive branch, you figure this out, when really it should have been the Congress setting those guidelines. Yeah. And there's a lot of incentive for members of Congress to offload essentially the legislative responsibilities to, you know, faceless bureaucrats.

[00:04:18] It this way they don't they're not harmed and they get to rail against, you know, electorally, they're not harmed. And then they get to rail against the excesses that those bureaucrats undertake. And so I suspect that that would be a harder lift up there than it might be here. What's your sense on its prospects in Raleigh winning approval? I think they're very good.

[00:04:40] I think that this bill will pass and probably the I mean, I could see Governor Stein signing it or letting it go into law without his signature. I don't think this will end up being as controversial as you might think. Yeah. But but you say it's that this is a good course of action, that this is trying to you said this is a necessary course correction. Why?

[00:05:07] Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of it has to do with the interplay of the federal and the state government. You know, like we just talked about, it's not as big a deal at the state level as it is at the federal. However, I mean, there still are 10 to 15 regulations each year that are going to have a million dollars or more of an impact on businesses or families in North Carolina. So it's worth having that accountability there.

[00:05:32] I mean, I can't say that I'm super familiar with all the regulations that come out. It's not a very transparent process. So this is going to put it in front of the General Assembly where there's going to be some open debate. There's going to be accountability. You can call your your lawmaker to talk about how you would be impacted by this this regulation.

[00:05:54] I doubt very many people are calling any regulators in the executive branch to talk about regulations that they even know they're coming down the line. So you don't consider this to be a power grab by the Republican legislature? Not at all. I mean, I think this is what the proper the proper role that the legislature should take in this process. Yeah. Let me shift gears because now is the time.

[00:06:21] I actually saw somebody wondering whether Roy Cooper was actually getting into the U.S. Senate race because it's only like 300 something days away. So you have some advice over on your website, Longleaf Politics, LongleafPOL.com for people that are thinking about running for office. And you I guess you and I don't know who is Ian Richardson that you've built this campaign starter kit with.

[00:06:51] Yeah, he's a real smart guy. Lives lives in the area. We worked together on the Dan Forrest campaign. He was the deputy campaign manager. So he's got a lot of experience on the ground running campaigns. And he and I, we both have heard from a lot of folks over the years. You know, people will call up and say, hey, I think that I'm running for this seed or that seed. What do you think? Not really knowing whether they have a good shot at it and then, you know, how to actually get started. And people can figure it out.

[00:07:20] And that's mostly what people do now. But it takes a lot of time and people make a lot of mistakes, waste a lot of time and waste a lot of money. So we saw an opportunity to put together a low cost product that helps people answer the question, hey, is this a good idea? But then also have the option to get off the ground quickly and cheaply without without making all the mistakes that we've seen.

[00:07:40] Are you is this kit primarily for, you know, like local races, municipal, county or you or like is it for any level all the way up to national? It's primarily for the down ballot races. You know, the top of the ticket type races, you know, they're going to hire a general consultant because they know they're going to have the fundraising there to actually afford that.

[00:08:04] So what we're primarily focused on is lower levels, you know, general assembly, county commissioner, city council, stuff like that. You know, low dollar races where they're not, you know, people aren't going to be able to afford, you know, a high price consultant, but still just want a little bit of help. Yeah. So you say that this is a way to help avoid traps that sink new campaigns.

[00:08:26] Do you like can you think of an example like of of a mistake that most of these local candidates make when they first start their campaigns? Yeah, I mean, there's a lot all day about it. But I mean, the first one is on the front end picking where you know what seat to run for.

[00:08:47] You know, some people really feel passionate about one particular seat, but they don't realize that so much of politics is a timing game. You don't really want to run against a popular incumbent at the peak of their power. So, you know, maybe this is the right time to sit out a cycle or two and do some other things and we can help guide people in that way.

[00:09:12] But then the other one is setting up an initial campaign budget, understanding how much money that you're going to need to raise to be successful in this race and what types of things to spend money on. You know, you'll see people will, you know, maybe they'll spend money setting up a texting platform when really they, you know, that's a waste of money that they'll get better leverage out of doing something else. What's your opinion on yard signs?

[00:09:40] You know, it may be unpopular, but I still think that yard signs done right can have a big impact. Okay. Actually, I think of, you know, Tark Bakari, when he was first running for city council, his yard signs were well done and got his name out there. And that's how I first came across the name. You know, if you're just putting your yard sign where everybody else has theirs and it's like one out of a million, then it might not be worthwhile.

[00:10:08] But if you do it right, it can work. Yeah. Tim Moore, now Congressman Tim Moore, when he was speaker, I asked him once about that some event and he said, well, if I see the yard signs in private homes yards versus public right-of-ways, like that's a better indication of public sentiment when you see lots of people putting the yard signs on their own property versus just sticking them at an intersection because that's some campaign worker that did that.

[00:10:37] Exactly. Yep. Andrew Dunn, publisher of Longleaf Politics. That's longleafpol.com. Also a contributing columnist over at the Charlotte Observer. Thanks for your time, Andrew. I appreciate it, man. Thank you. Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina, just a quick drive up the mountain? And Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together for a big old reunion.

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[00:11:57] Or check out all there is to offer at cabinsofashville.com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Let's head over here and speak with Mark. Hello, Mark. How are you? Mark. Hey, Pete. How you doing? Hey, I'm good. What's up? Real quick. These yard signs you were talking about, I've always just looked at them as just a total waste.

[00:12:24] Because most of them, I don't know what percentage, but most of them say, you know, Joe Blow for U.S. Senate. On a red, white, and blue background. That tells me absolutely nothing. If you see it everywhere, though, wouldn't that indicate a level of support for Joe Blow? No.

[00:12:51] I would say, you know, you've got more rabid, you know, devoted followers. I don't think there's any correlation. I think it would be R less than .005. Well, but that's the whole point of the signs. On private property, we're talking, because as I went over with Andrew Dunn,

[00:13:16] this was the strategy or the thinking behind the yard signs and how they can be helpful in measuring public sentiment. From the former Speaker of the House, now Congressman Tim Moore, he pointed out, if you see them just, you know, along the side of the road or at an intersection on the public right-of-way, that's just campaign workers. That doesn't indicate people's support. But if you see yard signs in people's front yards on their own,

[00:13:45] that means they had to go and request the sign. Or they had to agree to get the sign. And so the more of those that you see, like you drive down the road, and if, you know, 80% of the homes have a yard sign for this one candidate, then that would indicate a certain level of support among a lot of people, right? Right. But I would counter that by saying, couldn't you almost a priori predict what...

[00:14:12] I live in a place called Piper Glen, if you're familiar with it. But I would expect to see a lot of, you know, Republican signs. Yeah, but so during a Republican primary, for example, if you saw one candidate's name more than another, you would think, oh, this candidate may have more support among those Republican primary voters, right? Yeah, well, those people are...

[00:14:40] Well, but I mean, you said... The point here is that it is represent... It can be, I should say, it can be representative of a level of support. If you're... If you see a lot of the signs, right? That... And that's all... That's all it is. Now, it's not going to... It's obviously not a campaign platform. It's all about just getting name ID, name recognition. So when you are thinking about voting, you want to research your candidates, and you pull up your ballot,

[00:15:09] you're going to see that guy's name, and you're going to remember, oh, I saw Joe Blow for Senate. I saw that guy's signs all over my neighborhood. So... I can't remember where I put my key 10 seconds together. I don't remember these guys. There are meds for that, Mark. You could... Well, yeah, we need to talk about pharmaceuticals one day. I'd love to talk to you about that. But yeah, okay. Mark, I appreciate the call, man. Thank you, sir. Yeah, all right, yeah. Also, if done well, right?

[00:15:39] Like, you could use your... If you have a name that looks good with a particular slogan on a sign, you can create viral moments, or you can get a lot of what they call earned media coverage, where you do something, and it earns you media, earned media. And so that then means you're getting media coverage pro bono. You don't have to pay for it at all, right? If you do signs well, and it creates some sort of a buzz, then...

[00:16:09] You know, people have done this with billboard campaigns and the like, you know, guerrilla marketing efforts, that kind of stuff. So I think it's just... It's all in how it's done, you know? All right. So spring is here, a time of renewal and celebrations. You got graduations, weddings, anniversaries, and the special days for mom and dad. Your family's making memories that are going to last a lifetime. But let me ask you, are all of those treasured moments from days gone by, are they hidden away on old VCR tapes, 8mm films, photos, slides?

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[00:17:08] with the love and care that it deserves. Creative Video, preserving family memories since 1997. Located in Mint Hill, just off 485. Mail orders are accepted too. Get all the details at createavideo.com. Happy April Fool's Day to all who celebrate. And if you are one who celebrates, I loathe you. No, I'm kidding. It's just a joke. Happy April Fool's.

[00:17:34] No, I don't do the practical jokes and all of that. I don't. I mean, mainly because I'm not good at it, nor do I care to be good at it. Because, you know, then what? Like, I've developed this skill. I've taken time away from my busy, busy schedule to try to hone this craft that I only could use one day a year. Nah, the juice ain't worth the squeeze on that for me.

[00:18:02] So, that's why I, look, that's why I put the rim shots into the program. So you know when I'm joking. Which, by the way, this is a bit of a delayed rim shot. I did not actually go to Greenland. So, there you go. All right. That was just a joke. And that's different than practical jokes for April Fool's. There is a line there. Okay. Anyway.

[00:18:28] Could, could it be that we could see the end of the con? The certificate of needs? Oh, well, I guess it would be certificates of need. Yeah. It's like attorneys general, right? North Carolina has some really stupid law called the certificate of need.

[00:18:53] And state lawmakers have now filed a bill to dismantle this really stupid law. According to Jeff Moore over at thecarolinajournal.com, it takes aim at the healthcare regulatory regime, which restricts the establishment or expansion of healthcare facilities and services in the state.

[00:19:21] I have talked about the CON, the certificate of need law, for years. Because it's really stupid. The law, a whole raft of them, requires healthcare providers to secure what they call a certificate of need. From the government. Before you can build a new facility. Or if you want to add hospital beds. Or you want to buy major medical equipment.

[00:19:53] Think about how stupid that law is. Hey, I would like to add some beds to this hospital. Because, you know, we have a lot of patients. We're running a hospital. We've realized we need some additional beds. So we would like to just, you know, buy some additional beds and set them up. Please, please, Raleigh. Please, can I have some extra beds? Or, hmm, you know what? These MRI machines seem to be in high demand.

[00:20:22] We could be doing a lot of MRIs for people. Or cat scans and such. You know, when you want to bring your cat in and have it scanned. And so we're thinking, hey, you know what? Let's add a couple more of these machines. Please, Raleigh. Please, maybe add some more machines. Like, this is so stupid. If the hospital wants to invest. Or a facility wants to invest in some scanner. Some machinery. Some equipment. They would know better than GovCo.

[00:20:50] Whether or not they actually will get a return on that investment. And if they don't. Then they go out of business. They maybe have to sell the machine. But here's the thing. At some point those machines get paid off. Right? At some point, it's just almost pure profit at that point. Once the machine has paid off. And you're still using it after a couple of years. You're just making money hand over fist. And then you can buy your next machine. And then you can do twice as much. And at some point, yes, you're going to say.

[00:21:20] Okay, we have enough machines. The sweet spot was three machines. And that's the number that we're looking at. Because the supply is meeting the demand. And that's what we wanted. Or it may be you're the only CAT scanning operation in town. And I see that you're the only one. And you have restricted the use with only one CAT scan machine. And so I'm like, you know what?

[00:21:47] I feel like I could offer more CAT scans for this demand that is being unmet by the current supply that you have one machine. So I go out and I buy two machines. And now I'm doing CAT scans. And I'm taking business away from you. And who benefits? You. Right? The public does. Because now you are getting more access.

[00:22:15] And more machines means competition between you and me because you don't want to lose your client base. So you're going to now start offering maybe a cheaper price. I don't have to pay for two machines. I've had this one machine for a while. It's paid off. So I'm going to cut the price on that. Now I'm going to have to turn around and cut the price. And so now we are going to what? Drive down the price for the customer. Stop me if you've heard this model before. This is the free market.

[00:22:45] This is the free market. You are the free market. I am the free market. I say it all the time. We are the free market. Us making all of these decisions, the businesses making their decisions, millions and millions of decision points every single second of every single day. There's no way that GovCo up in Raleigh is going to be able to know what all of those decision points are at any given moment. It's impossible.

[00:23:12] It is the fatal conceit of central planners that they can somehow know this information, even with AI. Yes. All right. Let me go over here and talk to Andy. Hello, Andy. Welcome to the program. Hey, how are you doing today? Hey, I'm good. What's up? Good. Good. So I was shocked when you said that they were having to ask to get another piece of equipment.

[00:23:37] And it makes sense because it doesn't make sense, but it makes sense now to me about an experience I had last March. I had a stroke and I was in Carolina's Medical Center for four days. And it took about two and a half days to get an MRI while I was having stroke symptoms. And every time I would ask, what are we waiting on? Well, you're in line. There's a lot of people waiting in front of you. Yeah. Oh, man.

[00:24:05] Well, why would they not have another MRI machine? They've got all these people waiting to get MRIs. It doesn't make sense. Right. The market is sending them a signal that they cannot now respond to or won't respond to, but they cannot respond to it because they probably would have to go through and get a certificate of need from the government. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. Isn't it? It's the stupidest law. And we have it in this state.

[00:24:32] And your experience, Andy, and by the way, you doing all right from the stroke? Yeah. Good. Thanks to Lord. Yeah. Good. Good. Yeah. I've heard the same. What's crazy is why is there not somebody saying, hey, there's got to be people who have died waiting to get these tests done? I'm sure. You know? Yeah. I mean, the numbers would indicate, I mean, just basic laws of probability, right, would indicate that that would be the case. Sure. Yeah.

[00:25:01] Andy, I appreciate the information. Yeah, man. I appreciate the call. Thank you for the personal info, the story there, because I've heard the same from a friend up in Asheville. She was in the hospital for over a week because they had, I think she said they had two MRI machines and one of them broke down. And so everybody was in line for this one machine. And she's in the hospital.

[00:25:24] I mean, think about the cost now to the system where you've got somebody who's in the hospital waiting for an MRI before they can be discharged and they can't get them through the process because you have a line, because your one other backup machine has gone down. It's just, it is a very stupid law.

[00:25:45] And so kudos to Senator Benton Sawry, the representative from Johnston, the senator from Johnston County, North Carolina, for introducing this legislation to repeal North Carolina's con law. It's about time. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know, I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do, too. And you've probably heard me say, get your news from multiple sources. Why?

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[00:26:35] I started using Ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check.ground.news slash Pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get 15% off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature.

[00:27:01] Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. All right. Back to the Carolina Journal story about the con law potentially being repealed. There's another aspect to this. Jeff Moore writing at Carolina Journal dot com. The process of securing a certificate of need takes time and money.

[00:27:28] Competitors can tie up con decisions in lengthy court battles. Right. So you want to get an MRI machine at your facility. I am your competitor. So I start filing all sorts of temporary restraining orders or injunctions or, you know, gum up the works and stuff. So I can I can block you from competing with me because maybe I've got an MRI machine I want people to go to.

[00:27:56] So that's one way that they use the CONs. Another is that I will get the certificate of need. So you can't. Because part of this, it's the stupidest thing. I feel like I'm saying that a lot, but it's so true. It's such a stupid law. Well, I've told this story before, but like it is the quintessential example of it. There was they were wanting to open up on the county line between, I think, Henderson County and Buncombe County years ago. It's like 10 years ago.

[00:28:25] And one of the I think it was party health. And they wanted to open up a. A colonoscopy center. OK, they wanted to open up this center and the other hospital. I think it was mission. They objected. They said we don't need it.

[00:28:45] And so then you end up with like some government regulators doing market analysis to determine whether or not this service is actually needed or not in the market based on the number of people. And our market analysis indicates, look, you're not putting any money up. OK, I don't trust your market analysis, GovCo, because you have no skin in this game. You know who does?

[00:29:08] I mean, besides the patients, the party guys, the ones who are wanting to open the clinic, they're putting the money up. They're the ones that are going to build a facility, staff it, put the equipment in there. And if they did a market analysis that turned out to be flawed, they lose their money. Their skin is in the game. Right. Their money is on the table, not GovCo's. And so they held this hearing. They held a public hearing.

[00:29:36] And they had members of the community showing up and some woman gets up there and she starts saying, I don't think that this is necessary. She offered no credentials. Like just some rando from down the block who's like, I think we don't need any more colonoscopy centers. Your opinion does not matter. I'm sorry to be the bearer of this reality, but you and your level of expertise are irrelevant in this situation.

[00:30:06] You don't know what you're talking about. So, no, even though it's a public hearing and maybe this is the only opportunity you had to leave the house this week and talk to people. But your opinion doesn't matter. You don't know what you're talking about. I would never get up there and tell some industry you you shouldn't open your facility here because we don't need it. And I'm basing this on no information whatsoever.

[00:30:31] Critics point to the CON laws as a contributing factor in North Carolina's unenviable position as the highest cost health care market in the nation. Representing a purely bureaucratic barrier that propels rising health care costs and limits accessibility. While more piecemeal reforms of CON regulations have been enacted and proposed over the years,

[00:30:54] Senate Bill 370 and a companion piece over in the House, House Bill 455, they aim for a wholesale repeal of the law. It would take effect in on January 1, 2026 if it is approved and if it gets the governor's signature or he could just let it become law without a signature. The constitutionality of the certificate of need regime has been challenged in court multiple times.

[00:31:22] Last October, the state Supreme Court vacated a lower court decision in one of those challenges, keeping the legal case against certificate of need laws alive. OK, so we still don't have a determination as to whether or not this is constitutional, whether it's even allowed. They're still litigating this stuff. Sponsors of this bill are not content to wait for the court rulings to potentially overturn the regime.

[00:31:47] As a matter of state policy, lawmakers believe that state bureaucrats should play no part in restricting health care offerings within the Tar Heel State. And they would be absolutely 100 percent correct in that position. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast. So if you'd like, please support them, too, and tell them you heard it here.

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