One town's attempt to derail a transit plan if it doesn't get trains (08-13-2024--Hour1)

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepeekalendershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I want to start, though, locally with a topic that has been 20 years in the making. And that is light rail through East Charlotte. When I was a reporter for WBT News here, and I would cover the Charlotte City Council meetings, Mecklenburg County Commission, School Board, State Government, but also the Metropolitan Transit Commission, the MTC.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00]: which was made up of representatives from all of the local governments and such. And they started down this path of the light rail and the mass transit plan. And it was a battle. Getting a one-cent sales tax adopted for transit. All sorts of promises made about how it's going to relieve what was the line that Keith Larson used to say.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Traffic congestion, traffic congestion, oh my. Traffic congestion, pollution, oh my. That was always what it was pitched as at the beginning.

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, it turned out it actually does not reduce congestion. It does not reduce pollution because the traffic, which it also does not reduce, piles into the corridors around the mass transit lines, the train lines.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And we have seen this. Just head on down to Millennial Row, a.k.a. Southend in Charlotte. I enjoy going down to Southend.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a pretty, you know, it's a pretty, you know, vibrant, hip-happening place where the Utes are all hanging out, taking over streets, doing wheelies and stuff, burning rubber, all that kind of thing.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00]: But there are a lot, you know, it's a younger, hipper part of Charlotte now.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: After all of the, you know, the flippers bought all of the Nodah millhouses and turned them into McMansions, if you will.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Nodah is the North Davidson area. It was north of Charlotte. It used to be very run down, hence very cheap.

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_00]: And all of the artists went there because it was cheap housing, old millhouses.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And it was very close to Center City.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And as Center City got revitalized at a time when they did not allow people to defecate on the sidewalks and such,

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_00]: they did not allow people to, you know, take up residence on the bus benches and such.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there was this big focus to turn Center City Charlotte into a destination.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Right. And I've talked about the marketing campaigns over the years they did.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: My favorite being the campaign branding of the city in order to dispel any confusion that Charlotte, North Carolina was located, is located in North Carolina.

[00:03:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Because people, they hear Charlotte and they think Charlottesville, Virginia.

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00]: They think Charleston, South Carolina, which isn't even the same name.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00]: But there has for a long time been a general confusion about where Charlotte was located.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00]: And in order to be a world-class city, you've got to be able to just say Charlotte and people know where you are.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_00]: So they launched this big branding campaign to tell people that Charlotte is located in North Carolina.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And the brand that they settled on was Charlotte USA, which doesn't actually tell you it's in North Carolina.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_00]: But I digress.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00]: World-class city status has been attained, I believe, by Charlotte at this time.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And there are a lot of different factors.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_00]: I think the biggest factor, though, that drove Charlotte's growth is probably the airport, the international airport,

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_00]: and all of the additional runways that were added, the expansion and everything like that.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_00]: So when the transit plan was being developed, there was a big push to have a train line run to the airport.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Because theoretically, you've got the two big banks.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: At the time, it was Wokolovia.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, since they got bought by First Union and then First Union merged with or got bought by Wells, I believe.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And so now it's Wells Fargo.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, Bank of Earth or Bank of America, if you will.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, the big corporate headquarters and Duke Energy located in Center City.

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there was this big push to get a lot of activation and redevelopment and turn Center City into a destination.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Entertainment.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: We saw the epicenter built, right, this entertainment place.

[00:05:19] [SPEAKER_00]: They had the arena.

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_00]: They had to tear down the old Coliseum and put up a new arena in Center City.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where all of the focus was being pushed.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it was thought, you know, 20 years ago, roughly, hey, we need to put the light rail line from Center City to the airport.

[00:05:39] [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is that while Charlotte Douglas International Airport does have a lot of traffic that goes through it, a lot of people.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're looking at the number of flights and that sort of thing, we're in like the top 10.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: I know we may be in the top five.

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I forget.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a very busy airport.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not a lot of originating traffic.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of connection flights.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's misleading.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00]: And this was the argument put forward by Ron Tober, the former CEO of the Charlotte Area Transit System, Katz, who said the numbers don't justify.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00]: The ridership numbers would not justify a light rail line going all the way to the airport.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember Pat McCrory pushed hard for that, but the numbers did not justify it.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Over on the east side, one of the most popular routes back then, and I'm sure it still is, was I think the number nine route, the bus route running down, I believe, Commonwealth.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_00]: It runs down the eastern part of the city.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And high ridership numbers, they're always adding more buses to that route.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And the city of Charlotte, its road structure but also its mass transit plan is built as a hub and spoke system.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_00]: It's not really a grid.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_00]: We built the city, not the song, but we built the city based on animal herding paths.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like that's, yeah, we're literally following the paths cut through the wilderness by animals.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you've been wondering, like, who the heck laid out this city?

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it would be animals with absolutely no engineering expertise whatsoever.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But the hunters and gatherers would follow the animals.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's, by the way, do you know that's why our roads are as wide as they are?

[00:07:33] [SPEAKER_00]: You know that's why cars are as wide as they are?

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's based off a horse's butt.

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00]: The wagons.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, animals have designed a lot of our society.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we really give them enough credit.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: We eat them.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, the hub and spoke system is, you know, you've got your center city and then you have these main lines that kind of spoke out from it and everything goes into the center city.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And so the east side recognized that.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And look, that was one of the first areas that like in the 50s and 60s, development started pushing out to the east.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of housing stock out there.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Big, fat, wide roads because we were building around the automobile, again, based on the horse's butt.

[00:08:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we did a lot of development out on the east side.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Independence Boulevard or Highway 74 runs all the way from the mountains to the coast, runs right through the city of Charlotte.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00]: And, of course, we kind of sort of think it's going to be a freeway at some point, but maybe not.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Probably not.

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_00]: Don't think it could be an interstate at this point.

[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: And back then they thought, yeah, we're going to run interstates basically right through the cities because that's really smart.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And then like in Asheville, they thought, hey, well, we've got this loop.

[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to run it through Asheville, run it right through the city because people, when they get stuck in the traffic, they're going to look over and see the city and be like, hey, we should get off and go visit that city.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: That did not happen.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_00]: But I digress.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_00]: The spoke that goes out to the east has always been this sort of dream of the east side activists and neighborhood associations.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_00]: The dream has been to make that a train line.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_00]: And they don't want buses.

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: They have not wanted buses over there for 20 years.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Because nobody, nobody builds housing developments.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want buses or buys homes because a bus stop is located near it.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody says, oh, hey, there's a bus stop right in front of my house.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to increase my property value.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's usually the opposite.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_00]: So what they want is train stations.

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_00]: See, it's not even really about the trains.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about the train stations.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you have the train station, you can't move that.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_00]: That's stuck there.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That's way too expensive to pick it up and move.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you can pick up and move a bus stop very easily.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just a sign usually in Charlotte.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, every now and again, you got a bench.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_00]: And even less frequently, you've got a shelter.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_00]: But a train station?

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's infrastructure, my friends.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what the east side wants.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They want the infrastructure.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_00]: So they can get more development.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what Matthews, the town of Matthews, which is down Independence Boulevard, that's

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00]: what they want.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Trains for the development opportunities to increase economic activity and taxes.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what this fight's about.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_00]: That's my opinion.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote Chris back.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Chris says, Pete, the number nine bus route is Central Avenue.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Secondary hub is former Eastland.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: The old Eastland Mall.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_00]: They should totally put an ice skating rink out there.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I think people might use it, you know?

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_00]: And so I thought I said that, but maybe I didn't say that.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I said when I said the number nine route runs to...

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I said...

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it does.

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_00]: It runs down Central Avenue.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that's what I said, but maybe I didn't.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it's a major route down through the east side of Charlotte.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00]: So Matthews, town commissioners, and Matthews, for folks who aren't aware, Matthews is down

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Highway 74, or Independence Boulevard, is farther down the line there.

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_00]: And the Matthews town commissioners last night voted unanimously to oppose the deal that got put together to go to the state legislature to ask permission to hold a referendum to ask us voters if we would like to raise our taxes through a sales tax, a one-cent sales tax.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00]: Which, by the way, is a regressive tax.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Sales taxes are regressive.

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: Because everybody pays the one cent on the dollar.

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And so people who don't have a lot of money, don't have a lot of disposable income, it takes up more of their pay than a rich person buying the same product.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Now, yes, rich people do pay for more goods, and they usually spend their money on more expensive goods.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_00]: So they do end up paying more in taxes.

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: But it's the regressive tax.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The sales tax is a regressive tax, which usually Democrats are opposed to.

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_00]: But for some reason, this tax is totally fine.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: They objected to the North Carolina legislature when they normalized all of the sales taxes across all different sectors.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: For example, auto repair.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Auto repair had a carve out.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Auto repairs did not charge sales tax.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_00]: And the legislature said, well, that doesn't make sense.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Or like movie theater tickets, remember that?

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: Didn't charge a sales tax on it.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_00]: So they said, well, you're obviously buying and selling a good or service.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_00]: So all these other goods and services are taxed with the sales tax.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_00]: So everything should be taxed the same way.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And Democrats in the media, but I repeat myself, scream bloody murder.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: It's regressive.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_00]: But now when it's for something they like, now they're fine with it.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Now they're okay with a one cent sales tax to fund transit.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_00]: But the Matthews town commissioners are not cool with it because the plan only calls for them to get a bus.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Now it's a rapid bus.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean it actually drives faster.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_00]: It just means they're going to give it a dedicated lane.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't have to sit in all the traffic like every other schlub on 74.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That's what makes it bus rapid transit or BRT.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: B-R-T.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_00]: BRT.

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Which kind of sounds like a bodily function to me, which may also be why the Matthews town commissioners don't want to have it.

[00:14:07] [SPEAKER_00]: If you would like to email the show and correct anything I have said, it's Pete at the Pete Calendar Show dot com.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Dennis says, I've been a Charlotte native for 74 years now and I have watched it take about six years for the half mile trolley car line to be built.

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Based on the fact that it's about 12 miles from center Charlotte to center Matthews, I figure at a half mile per six years, it'll take approximately 124 years to complete a train line.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That's possible over a century.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure rail travel will still be will still be the sign of a world class city at that point a century from now.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, I will say this about trains in general.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I do agree with Pat McCrory at the time when he said that this is about providing options.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00]: If.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Look, in covering development for a decade, I heard all the time that growth doesn't pay for itself.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_00]: And whenever I would ask the person who said that.

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, then why do you want to grow if it doesn't pay for itself, then why are we growing?

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_00]: And they would usually respond with, well, then you're then you're shrinking and that's even worse.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, OK.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_00]: So either way, there's a built in excuse to constantly drive up spending.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: And to constantly make the cost of living in a place less and less affordable.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_00]: So, needless to say, I was a little suspicious of this argument that growth doesn't pay for itself.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe growth does pay for itself.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_00]: I believe that people who say that either don't know that it does pay for itself or they're using the growth as an excuse for growing the size of government, which is really what they prefer to do.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Which is why, when I look at this vote at the Matthews Town Commission, where they're saying we're not on board with this train plan.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're going to get buses.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: And if it's about moving people and reducing congestion, which is the other thing that they say about all these mass transit plans, that people are going to get on the buses and they're going to ride into Center City.

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, there is sort of a class argument being made here that people who take the bus can't afford cars.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have as much money.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And so we don't want those people living along this route.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of argument, you know, which is never actually made.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: But it is part of the discussion.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But nobody wants to have that part of the discussion.

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's always this economic development argument.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00]: But if it's about moving people to the Center City and giving people this ability to get to work or get into Center City for a Hornets basketball game.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, some people would want to see it.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: There are some people.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Then it doesn't matter what the mode is, does it?

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It shouldn't.

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_00]: But trains mean fixed stations.

[00:17:20] [SPEAKER_00]: That means development.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And so when the town of Matthews says we want trains, not buses, so we're not going to sign on to this plan.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00]: And then they suggest increasing taxes, increasing the sales tax above the one cent in order to pay for a train to their town.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I have to wonder.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Does growth pay for itself?

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00]: What is the underlying assumption here?

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_00]: That you want to spur all this growth around the train stations in Matthews.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_00]: But if it doesn't pay for itself, what's your underlying motive?

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Is it to increase the cost of living in Matthews?

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Because I feel like that's what's going to happen.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_00]: But I agreed with the argument from Pat McQuarrie at the time after the blue line was built through South End, which was it was about options.

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_00]: It's about giving people options.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to live closer to the Center City, and a lot of younger people do, then they have an option to do that.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_00]: And it helps to move people around.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make it's not going to make an impact on the pollution levels.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_00]: They always would pitch that, but not actually, in my opinion, not actually true.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen the studies where it ends up with more congestion around the these nodes, the train nodes, the train stations and such.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_00]: And just take a drive down South Boulevard and you'll find out for yourself that that road is jam packed like all the time,

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00]: which means more idling and more fossil fuels being burned and CO2 emitted into the atmosphere.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[00:19:10] [SPEAKER_00]: The mayor of Matthews says,

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_00]: we just hope to convince our colleagues across the area to support us in something that's more equitable for everyone, not having winners and losers.

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting that buses would be losers here.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_00]: Buses are losers.

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_00]: If approved, the plan will be formally submitted to the North Carolina General Assembly,

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_00]: where legislators will decide the fate of a sales tax increase referendum before voters get to decide.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Matthews residents are being asked to foot the bill without any true rail to Matthews.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_00]: According to Commissioner Ken McCool,

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_00]: We've been consistently lied to that Matthews is getting what is equal and equitable as everyone else.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's a lie.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Under the legislation, spending on light rail, commuter rail and streetcar projects would be capped at 40 percent of revenue generated by a one cent sales tax increase,

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_00]: according to a presentation to some Charlotte leaders in late July.

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_00]: And that's because state leaders said,

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_00]: we're not going to let you put up a referendum to increase your sales tax for a transportation plan that does not include any road money.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00]: Matthews resolution that they adopted last night says bus rapid transit has failed to deliver in other parts of the country.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: The resolution opposes the sales tax referendum because it is not the community consensus plan requested by the General Assembly leadership.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_00]: The mayor said most transit oriented development around light rails is exponentially greater than around bus stations.

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: It calls for either a bigger sales tax increase of one point four cents or for all rail projects to be converted to bus rapid transit.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_00]: This was made somewhat facetiously, the mayor said.

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_00]: Because we know it will never happen.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: It's included to address all of those people that have suggested BRT, bus rapid transit, is every bit as good as light rail.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_00]: It isn't.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: They know it.

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_00]: I know it.

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows it.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it isn't from an infrastructure standpoint.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: People don't buy homes near bus stations.

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_00]: Because of the clientele or the perception of the clientele.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Intel.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_00]: State Senator Vicki Sawyer, one of the three Senate transportation chairs and a supporter of the red line, which goes up to the north, told the observer in early August that that she does not think legislation on a sales tax increase will move at all this year.

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_00]: It could get a look next year in the 2025 session.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_00]: But she's doubtful it would gain traction in the Republican caucus.

[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: She said, quote, I'm just not hearing a lot of great things about it.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_00]: It's just very difficult to get our caucus behind a tax increase.

[00:22:04] [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00]: That is true.

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know what happens if the Republicans in the legislature were to approve a sales tax referendum, even if they didn't vote to increase the taxes themselves, but they just give us the opportunity to do so.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And then we do so.

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Then Democrats will attack the Republicans for raising sales taxes, the most regressive of the taxes.

[00:22:34] [SPEAKER_00]: So they're not going that there's not going to be a large appetite to do so.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Let me see about Jim here real quick.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_00]: Hello, Jim.

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Pete.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.

[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also native Charlotte.

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_01]: This debate's been going on for 20 or 30 years.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Yep.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Bruton Smith back during Cash for Clunkers Day.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_01]: It was a hot and heavy debate.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Might have been about the time of the South Rail line with McCrory.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: He suggested a monorail.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Monorail.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: The more I thought about it, the more I thought it made sense.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It would probably be a more expensive installation.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: But it gets the trains away from the people.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And commerce, street commerce, street level commerce could even wind up being a tourist

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_01]: drawl.

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And it would be totally different for rail type transit.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00]: I think light rail is the most expensive of the rail that you can build except for a monorail,

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_00]: if I remember correctly.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_00]: And the benefit of the rail lines, the light rail, is that the rail lines were already there,

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_00]: right, versus having to build a brand new rail line.

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's 200-year-old, I guess, approaching three-century-old technology.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really time for a change.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what they claim.

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Monorail makes a lot of sense.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I like to see a network of monorails all over the country.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Monorail.

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Jim, I appreciate the call.

[00:24:06] [SPEAKER_00]: I remember seeing that on the documentary, The Simpsons, about a guy who came to town,

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_00]: got everybody all jazzed up about a monorail.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: They had a whole musical production and everything.

[00:24:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Email is Pete at thepetecalendorshow.com.

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_00]: And you can find me on Twitter, where we do a lot of the wet work.

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and we finally dragged that guy, Kyle Parrish, to blockage last night.

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: That was fun.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: That was just a little sidebar action going on.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_00]: He attacked somebody else, made a bunch of disparaging comments about people who live in Appalachia,

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Western North Carolina.

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: And he just got the wrath kicked out of him.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_00]: And then he started blocking everybody.

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to join.

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to join.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I think her name is Cassie Clark.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: She's like a big North Carolina defender of all things, you know, North Carolina culture and everything.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_00]: And so she asked me to be on our Twitter spaces on Thursday night.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to join her on that.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I'm going to have a lisp when I join her.

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently that's a thing.

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let me read some messages here.

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Do-do-do-do-do-do.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_00]: Dan says, Pete, no kidding.

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Based on the size horse.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I said the width of our roads is based on the, and our cars, is based on horse's butts.

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_00]: The width of a horse's butt.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Why?

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, because the wagons that hitch to the horse, they make the ruts.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Right?

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you come along, and that makes the road.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_00]: And then when you're going to brick it over, cobblestone it, pave it, whatever.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00]: That's the width that they originally built the cars to because there were already ruts.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, anyway, that's how we have our cars as wide as they are.

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_00]: Generally speaking, there are wider cars now, yes, and they vary.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_00]: But that was, yeah, that was the original.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that's why the roads are the way they are.

[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_00]: But Dan says, who knew?

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_00]: It certainly makes a lot of sense based on the leadership of cities like New York, Chicago, and L.A.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00]: There are plenty of gluteus grandes in each.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00]: Scott says, the cost of trains is a fool's errand.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_00]: By the time you had built a tenth of the infrastructure, autonomous buses could be built that would all travel there together making a functional train.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_00]: Matthew should invest in infrastructure for something like that.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That would be forward-thinking, conservative, and perhaps even clever.

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is part of the issue, you know, when you've got GovCo trying to predict the future.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they barely are able to react, right?

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Tim says, I once asked John Hood, the past president of the John Locke Foundation, if growth paid for itself.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, usually not.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Taxpayers usually subsidize projects.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_00]: In my opinion, the winners are the developers who leave their piles of poop when finished and move to the next project.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_00]: And they're political travelers.

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're more like locusts like that.

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: But yes, if you live in a house, you have helped a developer.

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Just a heads up on that.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: Unless you built it yourself, I guess.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_00]: That'll do it for this episode.

[00:27:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_00]: I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: So if you'd like, please support them, too, and tell them you heard it here.

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00]: You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecalendershow.com.

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, thank you so much for listening.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_00]: And don't break anything while I'm gone.