NC's lottery sees record revenue but reduces money to education (12-30-2025--Hour1)

What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to dpeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. And as we do every Tuesday at noon, here we speak with Andrew Dunn. He is the publisher, purveyor and writer, owner, founder, et cetera of long Leaf Politics longleafpol dot com. He's also a contributing columnist at The Charlotte Observer. Andrew, hope you had a great Christmas, sir. I did. I hope you did as well. I was sick, I actually know. Yeah. I got whatever that crud flu that's going around that they had to close down some hospitals over I got that over the break. But other than that, I'm fine. I'm fine. So you got any plans for New Year's Eve? I'm going to bed early. I can't stay up that late anymore. I was gonna say you got kids now, so that a whole different holiday celebration I think goes on when you get kids for New Year's But all right, well, I don't have anything on your your longlea politics website to talk about or a column at the Observer, but I did see yesterday afternoon the anticipated audit of the North Carolina Education Lottery came out from the North Carolina Office of the State Auditor. It released a financial statement audit of the lottery and revealed a significant decrease in net revenue designated for public education, which, like, okay, I might understand you saw a decline in revenue because of all of the online you know, gaming and gambling. Apps and all of that stuff. I could see where that might have eaten into the lottery revenue. But. The overall increase in lottery revenue would seem to undermine that. So there's a net revenue decline, but an overall revenue increase. And as I understand it, the amount of money that's been going to education has decreased in the same time period. So I'm a bit confused. Have you read through this audit yet? It's pretty lengthy? Actually, have you have you had a chance to Oh my gosh, you are a want. Yeah, of course. And I just had a column on the subject published this morning over at the News and Observer and the Charlotte Observer, so god, I'll have to go and check it out. But basically, what's going on here is North Carolina's lottery had a record year six point six billion dollars in sales. That's out one billion dollars more than last year. But the actual the percentage of that going to education hit a record low, and actually the raw dollar figures going to education actually decreased even though it brought in a billion more dollars. And you know, the first thing that I thought was, oh, well, somebody's on the take here, you know, somebody is getting rich, you know, at the lottery commission. But that's actually doesn't seem to be the case. The overhead has more or less stayed the same. But what's happening here is the lottery introduced something called digital instance. It's kind of like a digital scratch off ticket, you know, so there's there's no scratching, you just press the button and see if you won. And that has become almost half of the lottery's revenue now is these these digital instants and they pay out a higher percentage of prizes, and so that means there's just less money that goes to education when when everybody is playing the digital instance. Hmm okay, So as a business model, not sure that was the best move to go with. I mean, I understand if you're trying to move people from the printed cards over to a digital product, because you know, theoretically you'd be lower cost. I would assume, right, because you're not printing as many of the scratch offs, or maybe you still are, I don't know, but if you're paying out a higher percentage and that's leading to a decline in the revenue, Like, was that unintended? Did they not understand that that would happen? Is there any indication that there was any thought paid to that. Well, it's funny that you say you talk about the business model there, because I mean, this really illustrates what the lottery's business model really is. I mean, they're just trying to drive sales and get as many people gambling as much as possible. I don't think the Lottery Commission really cares at all how much money is actually going to education. You know, the lottery Commission is thrilled with this. I mean they're touting their record sales and kind of trying to sweep the you know, the less money to education under the rug. And that's why I'm particularly glad that State Auditor Dave Bollock was very upfront and pointing that out. I mean, it's a great business model if your goal is to just maximize sales and maximize gambling. You know, there is no commission to the gas stations, there's no printing cost of the tickets. It's all going to and it drives a lot more revenue and a lot more sales. But it's really clear that the lottery has completely lost its way. If it ever, if you ever bought the argument that it was about education, this these numbers really make it clear that that's not what the lottery is about. Now, Andrew, it says it right there in their name, the North Carolina Education Lottery. It says it right there. Education. Yeah, I don't. Think that's ever been the case. But you know, at the beginning in two thousand and five when it was passed, the law said that thirty five percent of revenue had to go to education. But even before the first lottery tickets were even sold. They changed that. They came back in two thousand and seven and changed it from a requirement to a guideline. You know, it was a. Hard floor, and then they said, to the extent practicable, make it thirty five percent. And I think it's pretty clear that that is not even not even a guideline anymore. That's just completely out the window. I mean, sixteen percent is just ridiculous. I spent a little time going through other states and collecting data on what percentage of other state lottery revenue is going to education or whatever that they're designating it for, and North Carolina is way at the bottom of the list. I mean, twenty five percent seems to be a fairly standard percentage these days. I mean it's a far cry from thirty five percent, but I mean, at sixteen percent, it's just an embarrassing. It's an embarrassment. Were you because you used to be a reporter, right, yeah? Yeah, So were you in North Carolina doing reporter work when the lottery got passed? Well, I was still in high school. I was around, but didn't have my professional hat on. Okay, so I'm showing my age then, So I remember when this thing was passed literally in the dead of night, by a single vote, and it was passed because there were a couple of Republicans I think one was out for surgery, one was out of the country. They called in a special session in order to ram this thing through under the leadership of the federally indicted Speaker of the House, Jim Black, And that's how we ended up getting this lottery passed because the Republicans were against it. Now, they were not in the majority at the time. The Democrats control the House, and Mike Easley, the governor at the time, very much wanted this and it was sold to everybody as a way to supplement not supplant, not supplant. They're not going to replace the education funding in the General Assembly budget. This is just in addition too. That's the way this whole thing got sold. And now fast forward what twenty five years or so, and it is, yeah, like you said, sixteen percent of the revenue going to public school going to public schools sixteen percent in twenty twenty five, and that's just been continuously dropping. According to the story WSOCTV based on this audit twenty twenty four, it was at twenty percent. The year before that, in twenty twenty three, it was at twenty three percent. So it just keeps. Going down, and it is exactly as the critics predicted that it would play out. This is what we said was going to happen. But they said they had to do it, not just for the children, but also because all of the other states around us we we're doing lotteries, and so we had to do it in order to keep those dollars in North Carolina. So does that argument still hold up? I mean, I guess, But to me, it's really a matter of you know, what are we trying to do here? You know, if we go to the original premise that we wanted to supplement education funding, then we should be optimizing the lottery to maximize education funding, and that's clearly not where we're at today. You know, for the first time in about ten years, the amount of money going to education decreased. We haven't seen a decrease in raw dollars going to education since twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, So clearly, you know, the people in charge of the lottery business are not optimizing for money going to education. And you know that you mentioned the vote in the Senate. I mean, that's one of my favorite stories in North Carolina political history. It was it didn't have the votes to pass. You know, one Republican was in the hospital, one Republican was on his honeymoon, and so they ended up getting it to a deadlock in then Lieutenant Governor Bev Purdue cast a tie breaking vote to get this into law, and then Mike easily swiftly signed it. So, I mean, this is the lottery itself is a democratic problem. But I don't want to let Republicans off the hook completely here, because you know, North Carolina has been leaning a lot further into gambling in the last few years under Republican legislative leadership. Yeah, that's absolutely true. Also, I was astounded to learn in this story that this is the first comprehensive performance audit of the lottery since two thousand and eight, which seems, I don't know, not optimal. It seems like, no, it's not optimal. And the Lottery they do have external audits that do the financial statements and you can read them online, but this is the first time that somebody outside of the Lottery Commission has really been taking a look at the numbers and I think it's clear. You know, I was going back to see, you know last time that money to education actually dropped with twenty sixteen twenty seventeen. I mean, there was no news coverage of that whatsoever. It just was completely swept under the rug. And so I think that's one of the benefits of having Dave Bollock take a look at this and put out a press release and make sure people see what's going on, because if you leave the Lottery Commission to their own devices, they're going to just brush all that aside. And try to get as you said, try to get more people gambling, because that's their mission is to get. People in back gaping. Yeah, Andrew, thank you, sir. I appreciate your time. As always, Folks can look them up at long leafpol dot com. Subscribe to the substack newsletter there, and you can read his work in the Charlotte Observer in the Raleigh News and Observer as well. Andrew, thanks so much. Be new year to you, Thank you, Take care. All right, Holiday football has arrived right with Draft Kings sportsbook and official sports betting partner of the NFL, the Unexpected can turn game day into payday and don't forget Draft Kings as you're back with early exit. 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For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see DKNG dot co. Slash audio limited time offer from the text line bill says, the North Carolina education lotteries, digital instant games equal poker machines. That's a pretty good analogy. I'm old enough to remember when video poker was a massive problem in York County, because I believe North Carolina had them banned, and then they opened up a whole bunch of these video poker parlors all along the border in South Carolina. And at the time I was, I guess at that point, I had just graduated out of Winthrop University and was, you know, working various jobs and then and so, like I worked at a bar. It is no longer open. I believe it used to be called the Silver Dollar Saloon. I mean we booked bands, we had uh, you know, pool tables, and we had a couple of video poker machines, and I watched a lot of people throw a lot of money into the video poker and then you know, they were at all of the gas stations, and then you would have these little shops that opened up and they just would be packed with video poker machines, and then they started getting robbed at, like people storming the doors with long guns and such, and you know, holding people hostage, emptying out the safes and stuff, taking all the money. It became a real problem, and South Carolina eventually banned the video poker. Except if you are like the Catawba Indian nation, they had their bingo hall and they were trying to get video poker and stuff. There is like down on the PD River they put a bunch of poker machines on like a on a riverboat that never moved off the dock, you know, stuff like that. But this was a this was a really big. Problem for many years, and they finally got video poker outlawed in uh, in South Carolina. So that's what this does. It does kind of sound like that this digital instant poker machine or a digital instant. Game, I should say. And then uh. D Stewart says, uh, don't forget that the winnings are then taxed again by the state. What that amount is? Uh yeah, no, that's a that's a good point too, right. So the money that. You win off of the lottery supposed to go for you know, the the proceeds supposed to go to education, but that number has declined even though they pulled in record revenue. The number the the the money that they. Transfer over for education dropped, and as Andrew dungeas said, the last time that happened was almost ten years ago. And then after you win, if you win, then the state takes a cut of those winnings as well. So yeah, that's a that's a problem, I think now. According to the WSOC report, North Carolina Education Lottery officials said that it and others in the US experienced a decrease in revenue in fiscal year twenty five from the Powerball and Mega Millions multi. State draw games. And when I was reading through some of the audit report, it chrucked that up to the fact that they're weren't as many you know, billion dollar jackpots in twenty twenty five for these two games, these you know, interstate national games. And so when you. Don't have the massive, uh you know, potential to win a billion dollars or whatever it is, uh, then you get fewer players Like I myself, I don't ever buy a lottery ticket, you know, unless it's worthwhile with you know, a billion dollars, I mean, because who would want to win half a billion? Like, what's the point, you know, why would I even bother? And well, here's the other thing too, Like I don't even go into the because you like, you have to pay for the lottery tickets. I think you have to pay with cash or with a debit card. Right, you can't use a credit card because you could see how that would be problematic for people who have a gambling addiction, right they would they would get credit cards and just max out the credit cards on all of the gambling. Right, So you got to use cash, and I don't ever carry cash. Just a heads up to all of you would be muggers out there. Okay, I don't carry cash, and I don't ever really go into the convenience stores, the gas stations, you know. I pay at the pump and all of that. After I you know, grab the the scanner, you know, and I shake the thing around to make sure that no one's scamming me. So be aware of that scammers. Like I checked to make sure that no one's stealing my card at. The at the pump. So I don't ever really go in. So I did years ago. I went over and I set up online on their website, and so you can go in there and like buy these these tickets for you know, the billion dollar jackpots, I never hear anybody winning off of the online buys. You know, you always hear like somebody pulled over at a gas station and they won this big lottery, you know, winning whatever. You never hear, Oh yeah, somebody bought their ticket online. Does anybody win online? I'm not saying they don't. Maybe maybe we get an audit of that. How about that? I'd like to hear an audit of that. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. They help us process the meaning of life, and our stories are told through images and videos. Preserve your stories with Creative Video. Started in nineteen ninety seven in Minhill, North Carolina. It was the first company to provide this valuable service, converting images, photos and videos into high quality produced slide shows, videos and albums. The trusted, talented and dedicated team at Creative Video will go over all of the details with you to create a perfect project. Satisfaction guaranteed. Drop them off in person or mail them. They'll be ready in a week or two. Memorial videos for your loved ones, videos for rehearsal dinners, weddings, graduations, Christmas, family vacations, birthdays, or just your family stories all told through images. That's what your photos and videos are. They are your life told through the eyes of everyone around you and all who came before you, and they will tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video dot com. You've heard of the the Seinfeld holiday Festivus, right and the airing of grievances and right, well for the kids, you probably haven't seen the episode, but that's where it comes from. This idea of Festivus, this made up holiday that was. It George's dad, one of the characters, George Costanza. Or Art Van Delay, depending on the need. But George Costanza's dad created this Christmas holiday called Festivus and created all these different you know things around it, and one of them was the traditional airing of grievances. And Senator Ran Paul has been using this Festivus airing of grievances for years and every year he puts out a report his annual Festivus tradition of wasteful federal spending. Every year he puts out this report and he highlights some of the most egregious you know grants and funding programs and services and such that are in the federal budget. So this year his report totals one point six trillion dollars. One point six trillion. Now one point two trillion of that is interest payments on the national debt. That's what we're paying for, just the interest on the debt that we have accumulated, he said. Last Festivus, we clamored over the national debt, reaching over an astronomical thirty six trillion dollars, which I'm kind of surprised the debt is thirty six trillion, or was thirty six trillion, and one point two trillion is the interest I thought it be more. We're getting a good rate. But in one short year, the career politicians and bureaucrats in Washington have managed to reach nearly forty trillion dollars in debt without so much as a second thought. When asked who's to blame for our crushing level of debt, the answer is everyone. And by the way, I will add to this, it's not just the politicians. It's not just the Democrats and Republicans in Congress. Okay, it's not just the elected officials. It's not even just the bureaucrats, the Federal Reserve people like, yes, they are all part of it, but it's not just them. It's everyone. It's all of us, everybody that keeps voting these people into office, and everybody that keeps demanding that something has to be done, that government needs to do something, that we need another program, more money needs to go there, whatever, and nobody ever wants to talk about the cuts. It's usually one of the uh, the questions that I get crickets in response to whenever I ask people running for office, particularly Republicans, and I asked them, you say, you want to you know, cut spending. Where do you want to cut? What do you want to cut? And usually it's something like, well, we're going to take a look at some things and there's waste, fraud and abuse or whatever whatever. But there's never specifics because as soon as you start listing to specific cuts, now you have constituencies that are attached to those programs and services, like the Somalians, and they won't vote for you, and they're not going to want their ox to get gourd. This year, he says, Congress voted to raise the debt ceiling by five trillion dollars, the most we have ever had now. His report also cites numerous examples of bizarre experiments and training programs that we're funding. For example, the National Institutes of Health spent five million dollars to give dogs cocaine, which seems like a waste. I think they get the zoomies already. I don't know why you need to give them cocaine. I don't know why that's Like, how is that legal? Like on two fronts? Number one? How did you procure the coke? Right? Like? That seems to me to be a bit of a problem, Like how are you getting the cocaine into this government facility? How is that? Oh? Oh, okay, guys, I think I figured out what Hunter Biden's been up too recently. Efforts too soon, too soon, So we're feeding dogs coke. Also thirteen, I mean. Think about five million dollars, five million dollars to give dogs cocaine. I feel like we can do that a lot cheaper, you know, although I guess you want to make sure that it's it's cut pure, because nowadays, you know, I wouldn't trust anything out there on the streets because of the pentomylonoll So maybe that's. Maybe that's why. Also, the nih spent almost fourteen million dollars on those beagle experiments. Remember those people who may not be aware of this, These were the experiments pioneered by former NIAID or NIAD director Anthony Saint Fauci, right where they would put beagles into a like a it almost looks like an iron lung, you know, remember those things or have you heard of those things where it's like the body is well, except it's like reverse. The head is put into like a container and then it's like it's sealed at the neck or the body is out on the stretcher or whatever, so that's out exposed, but the head is inside this containment unit and then they they they kill the dogs using like sand fleas or something. Yeah, it's barbaric, not to be confused with doctor Barrick, also part of the whole ni H system. But anyway, like, uh yeah, this was this was the pioneering work done by Anthony Fauci's n I H or n I A D. So apparently we're still funding that crap. I don't know if they're I don't know if they're given the beagles the cocaine. I don't know if it's the same dogs. I'm not sure. But how how have the Republicans not shut the valve off on that thing? What? What? What possible science could you be gaining from that? Like, yeah, we're torture, unless, of course it's some experiment on the humans that are conducting the experiments and they're like psychopathy. I don't know. The Department of Health and Human Services has spotlighted several times in Ran Paul's Festivus Report. James Lynch writing about it at the National Review, HHS spent one and a half million dollars to combat drug use in Latin X communities through influencer marketing campaigns. So we're paying YouTubers and TikTokers and instagrammers to tell people drugs bad, but to do it in Spanish. I guess that's the idea. Also, one point nine million dollars on a mobile phone intervention meant to help reduce obesity among Latino families in the Los Angeles area. So just LA. So we have a bunch of obese Latinxers in LA, and so we're going to text message them at a cost of almost two million dollars to like, hey, stop eating another LA focused HHS program. And by the way, see this is why we saw the rise of the NGOs and this this system that we are now crippled under the weight of the fraud because government was doing this kind of crap so much that about fifteen twenty five years ago, Republicans made this big push to be like, stop spending this money on these things. Obviously they didn't do great job of it, because we're still spending this money, but they're like, we need to, you know, get the private sector to do this stuff because they can make the money go. Further and further. They made it go absolutely all the way to Somalia in some cases. So now we have both of these systems. We have both the government programs that are spent money like this and we have nonprofits that are just taking a bunch of money and not really doing anything with it, which, honestly, if I'm comparing the nonprofit model of doing nothing with it versus like the murdering of the beagles, I'd go with the nonprofit model. All right, if you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too, and you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why, Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and it's a website and it combines news from around the world in one place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. Message on the WBT text line from Andy am I to assume that Doge no longer exists. Yeah, you haven't heard a whole lot about Doge in a while. Have. We's a it's a good point, Andy. I don't even know if it exists, and I follow the news pretty closely, but I don't think it exists anymore. I think, you know, Elon got into his fight with Trump, and that guy large orbs got attacked in DC, and then after that, like it just all went away. I think they did speed up the retirement process for the federal employees. Remember that then covered the vault of paperwork inside a mountain, and that only a certain number of federal employees could retire in any given year because they literally could not process more than a certain amount of files per year. And the reason why they couldn't do that was because the elevator that takes you down into the crypt of these files, it moves at a certain rate of speed, and so the elevator could only make a certain number of trips per day. So yeah, again, I will say, if we were building GOV code today, it would not look like what it does right now. You know, we would have built a different kind of system. But you know, once you build these things, everything gets built on top of these older systems, and then they eventually collapsed because the older systems can no longer support the you know, the innovations and the population growth and whatever. So let's see here back to h rand Paul's report on his list of grievances of federal waste fraud and abuse. The Los Angeles area focused HHS program a marketing campaign towards certain I don't know which one, certain LGBT subcultures. I don't know what that means, nine hundred and thirty six thousand dollars to inform them about STD testing and treatment. HHS had another drug oriented project in New York City, where the agency spent two million dollars to collect spit and conduct surveys at ed M clubs and festivals. Ed M, I believe is the electronic dance music or disco music. I think it's dance music, you know where it like they play that crazy music and they got the crazy lights going, and then everybody, you know, takes a bunch of drugs. And so apparently they went in and took a bunch of saliva samples from people. I don't know why. But additionally, HHS gave three point three million dollars to Northwestern University to create scientific neighborhoods. No idea what that is but also that would hire space ambassadors. Oh sorry, safe space ambassadors, because yeah, I would say, if it's a space ambassador, you would put them under space Force. No, by the way, do we have any space ambassadors in space Force? Seems like we should probably have a couple just in case, you know, just in case we're out there and we encounter somebody and they're like, take me to your leader, Like who are they saying that to? It probably would be a good idea to have an ambassador just kind of floating around the Earth. So if some ship arrives, then like we hello, I am the ambassador to space. It's a pretty large jurisdiction. But no, this is a safe space ambassador. So I guess they only would be an ambassador in the safe spaces in the scientific neighborhoods. Not sure why the whole neighborhood wouldn't be a safe space, but definitely worth a three million dollars Along with forming committees with the purpose of dismantling systemic racism. Is that because if you build a scientific community, there wouldn't be enough women in. I kid, I kid. Women could do science too. I'm not saying they can't, but men are overrepresented in I'm not trying to get into that whole argument. I'm just saying a major HHS expense that previously drew scrutiny twenty two point six billion spent on welfare and other expenses for illegal immigrants during the Biden administration. So we've moved. Past the the You know, there's a cycle that occurs here where it's you know, first you deny that the thing is happening, and then you admit, okay, fine, it's happening, but it's just a little it's not a lot, it doesn't influence elections or anything. It's it's just a little bit. And then it moves on to okay, it's happening, and here's why that's a good thing. That's usually the cycle. Now, there are some there are like a little stops along the way. There could be like, Okay, yes it's happening, but you know, a pox upon you for noticing that it's happening, right, or before you get to the point where you say, okay, it's happening, but only a little bit, you may say something like you're racist if you are accusing these people of doing this thing, or you're racist for thinking that this thing is happening, right, So you get those types of arguments between the first and second phase. So there is a new phase. By the way, let's see here this is from uh I believe his name is Josh Geron Gerstein, who is a I'm not kidding. He is a senior. Legal affairs reporter at Politico Legal Affairs. Keep that in mind, that's what this guy specializes in as a reporter legal affairs. And he's commenting on the Somali fraud story and he says at some point the amateur effort to knock on doors of home daycares intersects with robust stand your ground laws, So like that would be another stop in that in that cycle of like you know, after okay, fine, it's happening, but it's only a little bit, then it would be like, okay, it's happening and it's a good thing, and then you could maybe throw in there and if you if you ask about it, then you should be you know, shot. So I think maybe that's another way point that we're adding here. Now. By the way, a stand your ground law would not apply if you were to go up and knock on a daycare center's door. That that's not stand your ground. There's no threats being communicated or anything. You're not you're not trying to, you know, threaten people with bodily harm or anything. So there's no stand your ground law. I feel they need to point this out to the senior legal affairs reporter at Politico. He may be thinking of the castle doctrine right where if somebody is in your home you can use force against them, But that wouldn't apply either, because you are a public business, you know, and me knocking on the door of a public business does not give business owner the right to shoot me through the door. Okay, so that doesn't even apply either. So he's just completely wrong on both of those counts. Anyway, back to their report, seven and a half billion dollars of congressional funding allocated for the Biden Administration's ev charger network the electric vehicle charger network, So seven and a half billion dollars built sixty eight charging stations. That is quite the bang for the buck, right there. Seven point five billion for sixty eight charging stations. Over at the National Science Foundation, fourteen million dollars went to have monkeys play a video game inspired by the prices right game show. Not sure why we need monkeys playing a video game, but sounds like a decent game. I'm gonna do it like the price is right. So two point four million on programs that promote bugs as food for human consumption. But we're not trying to make you eat bugs, everybody. We're just funding a campaign to convince you to eat bugs. The Pentagon spend seventy seven million every year actually on a dolphin training program. Not sure what the training entails. I wonder if they have different do they have different metrics for the female dolphins and the male dolphin. I'm not sure. The DoD is also funding two point eight million dollars of grants for implanting a borded fetal tissue into humanized mice for some reason. Don't know why. Don't know how to humanize a mouse. Actually, I don't want to know how one would go about humanizing a mouse. It sounds horrific. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.