NC Speaker on ICE override; NC Auditor on efficiencies (08-07-2025--Hour3)

What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to dpeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for your support. I want to welcome to the program the Speaker of the North Carolina House, Destin Hall, a Republican from Caldwell. Hello, mister speaker, how are you, sir? Hey Pete, I'm doing well. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely, I appreciate you making time for us today, and you're welcome back anytime. So let me well, I say that now, but you haven't even heard my questions, so you may not No, I'm kidding, you may not want to go back. But so you had a string of victories in the veto overrides. I've been covering the various overizon. Earlier in the program, talked about the House Bill three eighteen, the Criminal Illegal Alien Enforcement Act, which has prompted a lot of outrage among Democrats against one of their own representative, Carla Cunningham, right here in Mecklenburg County. So first off, I have to ask, is it possible to get that bill or the law now I guess renamed to Gary's Law in honor of our sheriff here in Mecklenburg County. I would very much appreciate that. Well, you know, there. Was some idea about that, and the sheriff there in Mecklenburg certainly does love to talk about ICE issues. And you know, we've been working on this issue for a number of years, going back probably five years or so. We passed a bill generally requiring Scheff to cooperate with ICE. In the last two year cycle Cooper Vito we overrode, and then we discovered that we were told the Mecklenburg sheriff thought he had found some loopholes. So we wanted to fix that issue for him and any other sheriffs who didn't want to cooperate with ICE, and that was the genesis of this bill this time around. And the bill just simply requires sheriffs to cooperate with ICE when they arrest somebody for a serious crime, just like anybody else could be arrested for a crime, and that person also happens to be here illegally. So we're talking about folks charged with serious crimes. ICE wants to detain them. Unfortunately, we had just a few sheriffs who simply would not cooperate with ICE and honor those detainers. It's insane and we had to put a stop to it. You know, we did have one of our friends on the other side of the aisle crossover and vote with us on the override. That same member had voted with us on the override last time around on the Ice field with Cooper's governor, and the Democrats tried to primary her in the last cycle. She got about eighty five percent in that primary. So I think the Democrats could probably learn a lesson from Representative Cunningham on where people are when it comes to cooperating with ICE. So yes, I don't think they will learn, but yes, I agree they should learn something and listen to her. But they did. I have heard their counter argument to what she laid out in her floor speech is my understanding is shut up Representative cunning In that's been I think that's been their counterpoint, which is I did not find persuasive. Well, there's really no argument against cooperating with ICE. The polling shows eighty ninety percent of the population agree you should be cooperating with ICE. And it was really sad to see on the floor of the House you had other Democratic members trying to shut down the debate from their own Democratic member who was supporting the bill. Of course I didn't let that happen, but it just goes to show they don't have an argument against this. They're completely beholding, beholden to these extremists, left wing groups that want open borders, and they're going to side with those left wing groups. They're going to side with open borders. We saw it in the Biden administration where our border was wide open, millions of people crossing. We don't know who they are, where they're coming from. And thankfully President Trump's in there now. He has shut down our borders, and we're going to do all we can in North Carolina to help him to make sure we enforce federal immigration law in North Carolina. Is it possible that the Democrats are not aware that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigration, because they seem to only just say immigration they never make a difference or a distinction between the two forms. Is that possible. Well, you know, I don't pretend to understand the mind of many Democrats, and I think that it's difficult to understand where they're coming from on many issues, including this one. But you know what I'll say is this, If you look at the way that the census operates currently, illegal aliens are counted in the census. And why is that important? It's important because when congressional districts are drawn across this country, when districts for state House and senator are drone, we use the census, and the census again including the legal aliens in it, people who are not supposed to be able to vote. We have to draw districts on those numbers, and it results in states like California getting more congressional members in the United States House of Representatives than they should be entitled to if we were only counting citizens. I know Trump's trying to do a use census now to exclude the legal aliens, but I think part of it, at least from a national level, the Democrats understand legal immigration is in their interests. They want these folks to count in the census, They want to get more congressional seats out of it, and ultimately, I believe their long term plan is to try to get these folks to vote. They want to give amnesty and be able to have imported voters that Democrats can rely on in perpetuity. So are you confident that this with House Bill three eighteen, now that you've closed the loopholes that at least obviously that you know of, are you? But I got to believe that there are lawyers that are looking at it and saying that we can find some other loopholes to allow these sheriffs to continue avoiding full cooperation. I'm sure they're going to try and look. I think the bill we passed two years ago, I think it did what was necessary. I think it required chefs to cooperate with ICE. Unfortunately, again, we had just maybe one, two three sheriffs who, in my opinion, were getting bad legal advice and decided they didn't have to honor ICE detainers. So the purpose of this bill was to make it absolutely crystal clear. I don't think there are any loopholes in this law. I'm sure lawsuits are going to be filed. They will ultimately lose those lawsuits. The Democrats are going to do all they can to try to say this is unconstitutional. There's simply no precedent at all to say that this legislation is unconstitutional. We're going to win that one. So I think we have the problem here fixed. But you don't ever underestimate the Democrats' ability to do whatever they can to avoid enforcing federal immigration law. We'll keep monitoring it, though, and if you take further action. We will. Yeah. You mentioned the census and the counts. I've been covering that too. You're exactly right. Are you any any appetite for doing a Texas style mid decade redistrict? I know you guys love doing the redistricting. It's so much fun and well, you know, I. Used to share redistricting but before I was the speaker, so I've got a lot of experience with that. I think we've redrawn the maps about five times in my five terms there. You know, this last time around when we redrew, I think we did the things that we needed to do in that map. We're watching the national picture right now, of course, seeing what Texas and some other states are doing. We have a lot of experience with redistrict in North Carolina that other states may not. So, you know, I think that we have the maps that we need, but I think the injustice out there right now is states like California have more seats and they really should be entitled to. And so you see Texas and Florida and some of the other states who may have drawn maps that we're not as republican as they possibly could have been, and they're looking back now to say, well, we're going to right the wrong of illegal aliens being counted by redrawing our districts. And you know in North Carolina, will we redrawl again? We'll see. What I'll say is right now there's a very competitive district in the first district in North Carolina, Don Davis, Democrat there who votes with the Democrats in Washington, very vulnerable. I think we're going to beat him anyway under the current maps, and so we have I think the maps we need in order to the Primalth Carolina is the vote on this time. Around, Well, that's good. I don't want to have to cover more redistricting lawsuits. They're very dry radio content. You know, you've also got five vetoed bills that are pending override attempts. What are the status I guess which one? Can you tell us like which ones you think are going to move or like what's the strategy? Is it just kind of a wait and see who shows up to the session and then try to call for an override vote when you get the numbers. Well, so I'll say this, since the beginning of session, I have said we had a working super majority on most issues, and of course it depends on the issue. A lot of the Raleigh media and the Democrats they scoffed at that. They said I was blowing smoke. We would never be able to override a veto. Heard from many Democrats over the course of the last month before we did this that you'll never get any of these things overridden. I just kept my mouth shut because I knew what we had and we came in and we were able to override eight vetos. Things dealing with the ice Builck. We just discussed a bill that simply defined what a man and a woman is. Democrats are still confused about what it means to be a matter of woman, so we had to clarify that in state law. Bill's dealing with doing away with green enner mandates for duke energy. That way we get our power bills lower common sense stuff, and Democrats voted against it, but we were able to find at least one on these overrides. So now we effectively have about five bills that are still out there to be overridden, and I'll say this, I am optimistic that we will be able to override each one of those before the end of this biennium. There's a lot of things that go into that. There's a lot of strategy, strategy that goes into it, and I don't want to say too much because I think it hurts our chances to be able to do that. But what I'll say is that all those bills, including constitutional carry, will remain on the calendar every voting day of the State House until those things are overridden for the remainder of this two year cycle. I am optimistic about getting that bill and all of them overridden. It's personally important to me to get constitutional carry done again. Personally, I believe that it is a constitutional right already for a person to be able to have a firearm concealed and we shouldn't have to have this concealed carry permit in order to do that. Criminals don't care about concealed carry laws. They're going to carry a gun concealed, whether it's the law or not. All we're doing is disadvantaging of all abiding citizens and making it harder for them to defend themselves. But more to come on that later, but I will say I am optimistic that we will get the rest of those DDoS done. I think that's a very sound strategy. Not to divulge your strategy on the radio. To me, I think that's very wise. Okay, all right, mister speaker, thanks for your time. I do appreciate it. Sir, Yeah, thanks d take care all right. That is the speaker of the North Carolina House, Destin Hall, Republican from Caldwell. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. They help us process the meaning of life, and our stories are told through images and videos. Preserve your stories with Creative Video started in nineteen ninety seven and Mint Hill, North Carolina. It was the first company to provide this valuable service, converting images, photos and videos into high quality produced slide shows, videos, and albums. The trusted, talented and dedicated team at Creative Video will go over all of the details with you to create a perfect project. Satisfaction guaranteed. Drop them off in person or mail them. They'll be ready in a week or two. Memorial videos for your loved ones, Videos for rehearsal, dinners, weddings, graduations, Christmas, family vacations, birthdays, or just your family stories, all told through images. That's what your photos and videos are. They are your life told through the eyes of everyone around you and all who came before you, and they will tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video dot com. Here's a pet tweet from Eric, who says it is absurd that non citizens are counted for apportionment, which is a antcy way of saying the census count is used to draw the districts. That's the apportionment. Even legal non citizen residents should not be considered counting unlawful immigrants, rewards localities that undermined federal immigration law and penalizes localities cooperating with enforcement. That's exactly right, Eric, exactly right. Think about it. Right. Mecklberg County Sheriff Gary not my fault. McFadden has an incentive as a Democrat, as do all of the Democrats in Mecklinberg County, to not assist with removing illegal aliens in Mecklinburg County because it adds to the vote totals or sorry, the census totals, thereby giving them more power through the apportionment process. And a location that does cooperate with ICE and does remove illegal aliens, which then, of course creates an incentive for illegal aliens not to live in that jurisdiction. They are then penalized with a diminished political power at the congressional level. Yeah, it's and not just the congressional level either. I mean, you will use the census numbers to do all sorts of stuff. We draw our state and local maps based on these population totals. He's exactly right. We'll go to the phones here. Sure we haven't taken a call yet. Hello Chester, Welcome to the program. Hi Pete, how are you today? I am all right, sir, How are you good? So? I want to talk about the tariffs. President Trump keeps touting how much money every month the tariffs are bringing in most people in Maga. Is stupid enough? To actually believe that that money's coming from foreign countries? Are you asking me to speak for most people in Maga? Is that what you're rescuing me? It's your take? I mean, are they really? I mean, Trump says so many stupid things that anyone with half a brain knows is false. But then I remind myself that I don't think most people in Maga have half a brain. So when Trump says, you know, all these countries are paying you know, the tariffs and that's what's causing all this revenue, we all know that's demonstrably false. Are most people in magas stupid enough to believe it? You already believe they are, Chester, So why would I Why would I try to argue one way or the other with you? You already have your opinion your ohd no, hang on, Chester, I let you. I let you say your piece. So I'm going to say mine now to you, which is that you already have a belief that is predicated on an assumption that most people, if not all, the people that voted for Donald Trump or are in Maga or something, don't even have half a brain, that they are stupid. So what would be the point in me trying to engage with you because you're not going to change your mind one way or the other. You didn't call to talk about the actual tariffs and all that, and you've probably not even heard my take on Trump's tariffs, So like, what would be what what? What would be what would be the point of what would be the point of me arguing with you about the intelligence level of Trump's supporters. You don't care to be convinced, You're not You're not looking to be persuaded, right, You're looking to call people names, which you've done. Who do you think pays the tariffs? Who do I think pays the tariffs? I believe that the consumers do. And I said and I've said that from the very beginning, I did not agree with any of the tariff rollout that Trump did now and what I said at the time was that it could very well be that this is a negotiating tactic or whatever that I don't know. See, I'm willing to I'm willing And this is what I've said with about Trump since I've been watching him now for the last uh what ten years? Is to I'm going to give it a minute. I'm going to wait and see because I like, I grew up with the idea of free trade, fair trade, which I would prefer. But I may be a fish that doesn't know it's wet. That's what I said at the time. So I'm willing to wait and see. Now, if this thing goes sideways, they better be able. And I told the I told people that were defending Trump on the tariff stuff when they would call in to defend it, and I said, you better be right. You better be right, because if you're wrong, this is going to go sideways very quickly. Why does he so blatantly lie about it? Why do all politicians? Why do all people lie about stuff they get? Because lying? No, there is a now Chester, you just you, Nolchester, you have a You're holding Trump to a different standard than other politicians because Trump is so brazen in his hyperbole and his lies and whatever you want to call them. Yeah, but all the politicians do it. Like, do you believe there are Nazis in our in our government? Right now? Chester? Which sex trafficker? Do you think? No? No, no, Chester answer no, no, no, no, no. I'm I'm illustrating a point that I actually made in the last hour. Do you believe that the Republican Party or Nazis. La'll ask it that way. I think President Trump uses rhetoric. Why won't you just answer? Why won't you just answer the question? Do you think republic the Republican Party are Nazis? Steven Miller certainly is. He's a Nazi. I know he's Jewish, but yeah, he's a white supremacist who hasn't figured out yet that white supremacy stone. It's amazing how you know these things about the way people think having never met them. Chester. I appreciate you calling in and providing me a very good example of the very thing I was talking about in the last hour. If you did not hear that, I would highly recommend that you go back get the podcast. You can get it at the peatpod dot com and listen to our number two because I broke down precisely what you just engaged in. You just like to call people names you want to, you know, shift to another what about is them? Kind of a question? You know everybody's motives that you don't like, and it's just tedious and well, you just assumed that I was with Trump on the tariffs. I guess I don't know. So you can also go back and listen to the old podcast I did when I did the show on the tariffs as well. You can know all my thoughts about the tariffs. Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. Just a quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together for a big old reunion, Cabins of Asheville has the ideal spot for you where you can reconnect with your loved ones and the things that truly matter. Nestled within the breath taking fourteen thousand acres of the Pisga National Forest, their cabins offer a serene escape in the heart of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Centrally located between Asheville and the entrance of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. 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No, that's correct, sir, I have not been dbanked myself yet. So I am working on it. I'm working towards. It me or a mine, and I'm working on it all right, So. Let's let's talk about this. Well, the act that I guess was named after you, and you've only been in office as an auditor now for what's seven months, eight months, and you've already got a bill that has your name on it. So congratulations for that. So tell us what is this the Dave Act? Yeah, so I appreciate you asking. The Dave Act is actually an effort by the General Assembly in North Carolina to give the Office of State Auditors some additional resources to do a deep dive on government efficiency in North Carolina. And it is named the Dave Act, and so that's that's a four letter abbreviation. We're calling it the Division of Accountability, Value and Efficiency. But in essence, it gives us additional resources so we can tackle that effort because the office itself, prior to this Act going into effect yesterday afternoon about four point thirty, did not really wasn't really set up to be able to take a full look across state government at efficiency efforts. And so we're really I'm quite frankly, I'm pumped to get to it, and I'm glad that the legislature sees it as a priority. Well, I know, I watched your press conference that you held with the regarding the DMV audit that you all released as well, and you come across as someone who really likes data, and so I guess what I'm hearing then is that, like you, the Auditor's Office has not been able to get at some of the data in order to do the measurements necessary to assess whether or not there is efficiencies. Yeah, that's part of it, Pete. A bigger part of it is, you know, one hundred and sixty folks in the office sounds like a lot, but when you've got statutory required financial offers that crossed the spectrum from all the universities, the community colleges, the state agencies that we have to perform financial audits on. That's a large part of the human staff that's working on that, and quite frankly, not particularly the fault of any one individual, but the technology has lagged behind at the State Auditor's Office. It's not that shouldn't be a surprise to most listeners that state government was lagging behind in technology. But you know, from day one we've brought in the newest technology. We've brought in AI, and we're working with AI already in the State Auditor's Office to sort of streamline and be able to take these large data sets and make sense out of them. I told somebody the other day, you know, some things don't change when the auditor shows up. We get the information now, now we don't necessarily get it in a particular order, right, But the AI is a game changer on that because the days of printing the invoices out and spreading them over the conference room table or gonge, you can feed it through the data analytics and get to the answers a lot quicker and a lot more efficient. So I'm very confident the people of North Carolina are going to continue to see increased results out of the State Auditor's Office moving forward. So that's interesting you bring up AI, So it sounds like you guys are leaning in and using new technology and updated systems. It sounds like but like with the DMV audit you mentioned this, and I'm aware like all facets of state government and even at the local level, they're running on these antiquated systems. Like do you have any idea to get a sense of like, are there any agencies and divisions of government at the state level that are operating as sort of a modern day or even close to modern day tech level like you're describing in the Auditor's office. I can't think of one. I can only think of one that is doing pretty good, and that is, of all things, the Employment Security Commission, folks that do unemployment, they actually have a brand new system and they've got a really good CIO. One of the things that we do at the Auditor's office is we actually complete information systems audits. We do cybersecurity audits for the state of North Carolina. That's an entire team that we have in our office. And I had the pleasure of sitting in on what we call an exit interview with the on our audit of the Employment Security Commission, and they do have an updated system that's doing pretty well. And short of that, I don't know that we're really, as we say, down east cooking with peanut oil on the technology end in North Carolina. But we'll get there. We're going to get there, and our office is moving very quickly. We're rapidly moving into brand new systems that are secure, that are top notch. I have a fantastic data analytics team and we brought in some really good folks to help us get ahead of the curve. I do not want to be the auditor version of the D and V in four years where we are so far behind that it's a startover situation. Yeah. Now, the governor vetoed this enabling legislation for the creation of this Dave Department, and he said he worried that it could affect the state's economy. He said, quote, giving the auditor this intrusive power may undermine our state's efforts to recruit businesses to North Carolina. Do you have any idea what is he talking about there? Yeah, well, so two things. One, he didn't veto the day that he vetoed what's called our Agency Bill, and he did say that and what that was. That was the piece of legislation that enabled us to utilize the new technology, and he vetoed that. I think he wrongfully vetoed that, and the legislature promptly overrode his veto and it is now law giving us that authority. I have no idea how being transparent and telling the people of North Carolina how their money is being spent in detail could possibly hurt the economy of North Carolina. To me, it's the exact opposite. We want to give businesses and citizens who live here and who move here the confidence that their government is operating at the highest level the most efficiently they can and using their money wisely in a way that invests the money, not just spends the money. And regarding the DMV, he also said, along with I think the DOT and DMV leaders, they were not on board with your idea recommendation to to give the DMV more autonomy. The governor not. He does not apparently agree with that idea either. What's your reaction to that. Yeah, well, look, it's fine to have disagreements and in full disclosure with the governor and I get along just by I mean, you know, and we are able to disagree, I think very civilly and in a professional manner, and we do disagree on this may matter. I look at it more from the business perspective, not from the government perspective. And it goes back to one of that old say and Pee. I mean, if you keep doing things the same way, you're going to keep getting the same result. And so our team, based on data and look, we brought in experts from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, North Carolina State University, and UNC Greensboro to assist with our audit to give us, you know, some some expert advice and some and some tools that we could use, and they were all consistent with the notion that the DMV needs to be autonomous of the DOT so that they can be quicker afoot make better decisions because quite frankly, the d and v's mission is not as broad or as wide as the DOT as a whole. Look, they got plenty of roads to build, plenty of bridges to build, plenty of infrastructure to pay attention to. The dm V is sort of this other agency that has a specific focus. And Pete, I'll tell you know, they produce. The DMV doesn't get state appropriation. They produce their own revenue two point two billion dollars plus a year in revenue. They collect another one point three or so billion dollars in county taxes. And it takes two hundred million dollars a year to run the DMV in private business. We call that a ten excerpt, right, that's a profitable business. And the fact is is that if the DMV can have more flow flexibility, they could in effect actually increase their own revenue by adding additional employees, providing incentive programs for the teams that they have in place to increase production, and we can additionally explore privatization pilot programs to help ease this line. Our team formulated the idea of a pilot program to be like a fast task. Look, we have toll roads. I know everybody doesn't like toll roads and I don't either, but it's your choice to take it or not. And you could pay a little extra and get right to the front of the line, get your driver's license. But you get the added bonus of if you can remove people from the general line who elect to go to the fast pass lane, that's going to make the regular line quicker as well. So we've got our dm V audit. I'm really proud of the work our team did. It's got some really solid common sense recommendations. But separating from DOT is number one. They need flexibility. They need to be fleet of foot. They need to be able to make decisions without running up the flagpole to three or four different bureaucratic layers before they take an action. Is that part of the problem though, because they so much of the money they generate goes to the DOT that they are the DOT doesn't want to lose control. Is that what that might that be sort of the friction point when it comes to the policymakers, the lawmakers. Well, first of all, I don't think the lawmakers are necessarily against separating it. I think we've got a lot of support in the legislature for separating I do think there's some angst with DOT about losing complete control of the revenue, but legislation. You know, look, if that revenue is needed at DOT, that can be handled through legislation. You know that that should be just an easy mechanical fit to get the money to DOT if that's part of the budget process, and legislature can certainly work that out. Other than that, I'm not sure what the rubb on that is. The commissioner I will tell you Paul Time has given it all he's got and he is a fantastic person. I've had a great working relationship with him. He's been very generous with his time and I do think he's got the right attitude and quite frankly, Secretary of Transportation Joey Hopkins has had a great attitude as well. I've been I've enjoyed working with them on this audit. I'm not really sure where that friction comes from on not wanting to separate, but you know, look, reasonable minds can disagree on things, but we're pretty firmed that it needs to be its own separate agency. Yeah. Well, I've kept you longer than I promised. I do appreciate your time. Keep up the great work. We do appreciate it. I appreciate it personally. I think people in the audience have appreciated it too. We covered your audit announcement yesterday, so thank you very much. Again, we appreciated State out of their data. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, forward to being with you. Again, absolutely, sir. Anytime, doors always open. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why, Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with Ground News. It's an app and it's a website, and it combines news from around the world in one place, so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground dot news slash Pete. I put the link in the podcast description too, I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. Regarding it, saw this story, I believe this was Politico. Yes, Politico. The electronic case filing system used by the federal judiciary has been breached in a sweeping cyber intrusion that is believed to have exposed sensitive court data across multiple US states. According to two people with knowledge of the incident, the hack, which has not been previously reported, is feared to have compromised the identities of confidential informants. That seems bad to me. That does not seem optimal. These confidential informants were involved in criminal cases at multiple federal district courts. The piece goes on to say the administs st of Office of the US Courts, which manage the court filing system, first determined how serious the issue was around July fourth. Now there are two different systems. One is called the Case Management Electronic Case Files, or the CMCF, which legal professionals use to upload and manage case documents. And then there is the PACER system, which I have used. That's a system that gives the public very limited access to the same data. It's not immediately clear how the hackers got in, but the incident is known to affect the Judiciary's Federal Core Case Management System, which includes both of those two components that I mentioned, the CMECF and the PACER system. This includes Arkansas, Iowa, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, and South Dakota. The judges were briefed at a judicial conference last week in Kansas City. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.