NC Senate calls for Article V Convention of States... finally (12-03-2024--Hour3)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalinershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] Pete Kaliner here. You can email me, pete at thepetekalinershow.com. That's K-A-L-I-N-E-R. You can also find me on Twitter at Pete Kaliner. Things get a little bit rowdy over there.

[00:00:44] So yeah, so last day or two, well, I guess yesterday it started. Yesterday afternoon, started mixing it up with the leftist over the Article V Convention of States.

[00:00:56] I mentioned this yesterday because a resolution was passed in the North Carolina Senate to officially call for a Convention of States, an Article V Convention of States. Article V from the United States Constitution.

[00:01:15] And it really is the debate around the Article V Convention topic really is an indictment on our K-12 government schools, the education, the civics education that our population has been subjected to for decades.

[00:01:36] Time and time and time again, I hear the same arguments and they are rooted in an ignorance of how an Article V Convention works and how it doesn't work.

[00:01:50] And it says very clearly there are two ways to amend the U.S. Constitution.

[00:01:58] Right? You got to go, you have to have an amendment process and there are two ways to do that.

[00:02:05] One is that the Congress can initiate the amendment and then it has to go through the ratification process.

[00:02:16] Then 30, I think you need 38 states to ratify an amendment.

[00:02:22] Every single constitutional amendment that America has seen has passed that bar and has originated in the Congress.

[00:02:33] That's the norm.

[00:02:34] That's the norm.

[00:02:35] 100% of the time, Congress can do this.

[00:02:38] They can propose an amendment and then if 38 states ratify it, then it's part of the Constitution.

[00:02:45] If you want to repeal an amendment, same process, right?

[00:02:49] Like with prohibition.

[00:02:52] So if you want to, let's say, repeal the Second Amendment,

[00:02:58] then you would have to run an amendment.

[00:03:00] It would originate in Congress.

[00:03:02] It would go to the states for ratification.

[00:03:05] And you know me, I don't like to make predictions, but I would predict this one.

[00:03:08] It would fail.

[00:03:10] It would fail.

[00:03:11] I don't think you're going to get 38 states to repeal the Second Amendment.

[00:03:17] But that's what Democrats need to do if you want the Second Amendment to be removed from the Constitution.

[00:03:24] That's how you do it.

[00:03:25] And they don't like that.

[00:03:26] Because it's hard.

[00:03:28] I don't know.

[00:03:30] It's supposed to be hard.

[00:03:32] You're not supposed to be monkeying around with the founding document, with our rulebook, to that extent.

[00:03:40] It should not be easy to keep changing the rules, right?

[00:03:44] We need certainty.

[00:03:45] As a society, businesses need this.

[00:03:48] Certainty creates stability.

[00:03:51] And confidence.

[00:03:53] Investment.

[00:03:54] People feel more comfortable doing things because they are not worried that tomorrow the law might change and now they're going to be in conflict with the law.

[00:04:07] Because if that's the case, then why bother doing the thing you want to do if tomorrow it's going to be outlawed, right?

[00:04:13] So it should be difficult.

[00:04:16] So the Congress has the ability to propose the amendments and that's how every amendment has been proposed so far in our history.

[00:04:25] There is another way to propose amendments.

[00:04:28] And that is we the people.

[00:04:31] We can do this.

[00:04:33] How do we do this?

[00:04:34] We do it through our state legislative bodies.

[00:04:37] Our state legislatures, which are closer to us than the Congress is.

[00:04:44] Right?

[00:04:44] A state senator and a state representative, the number of their constituencies in their districts are a fraction of our House populations at the congressional level.

[00:05:01] I think the Congress, yeah, I think the House seats are like somewhere in the neighborhood of 850,000 people in the district.

[00:05:11] That's how many, that's the size of a district in North Carolina and in America, right?

[00:05:17] You take the total population, divide by 435, that's how many seats you have.

[00:05:21] And so when you have a state that grows in population like North Carolina has, then we get more seats.

[00:05:27] That's why we keep taking seats.

[00:05:29] We took one from Utah one time.

[00:05:31] We took one from, well, we didn't take it from them.

[00:05:33] They were in line to get it because they had population growth.

[00:05:36] But New York has lost congressional representation because their population is declining.

[00:05:41] California lost a seat.

[00:05:44] So this is people voting with their feet.

[00:05:47] And it is sort of a market philosophy where people will choose to live in the society that is ordered the way that they prefer.

[00:05:57] And these laboratories of democracy, these states, right, they will attract more people if they have a better situation for more people.

[00:06:10] This is federalism.

[00:06:11] That's the whole concept.

[00:06:13] This is self-governance.

[00:06:15] We have the ability through our state legislatures, which I would point out also in federalism, the states are the seminal authority.

[00:06:24] The states created the federal government.

[00:06:28] There would be no federal government but for the states.

[00:06:32] So that's why the states are able to create constitutional amendments via this mechanism called a convention.

[00:06:45] You call a convention of, actually, the founders would probably be shocked, alarmed,

[00:06:53] probably hold us in contempt for not having called any conventions.

[00:07:00] They put it in there for this explicit reason because they knew that the federal government,

[00:07:06] as I mentioned at the end of the last hour, the natural tendency of government is to grow.

[00:07:11] The federal government, natural tendency, it will grow.

[00:07:15] And it will take more power from the people and the states.

[00:07:19] And that's why the founders originally set us up so we had U.S. senators that were not directly elected by the population

[00:07:28] but appointed by the state legislatures.

[00:07:31] Why?

[00:07:32] In order to protect state power against the federal power.

[00:07:37] You pit all of these politicians against each other and they become protective of their power

[00:07:45] and that then protects the people.

[00:07:47] That's the theory.

[00:07:50] Which has been largely, I think, borne out to be largely true.

[00:07:54] But about 100 years ago, progressives came to power

[00:07:57] and they turned over the direct election or the U.S. senators' election

[00:08:05] or their appointments over to the people to decide.

[00:08:07] They made that in the, was it the 21st Amendment?

[00:08:09] And so now we directly elect our senators.

[00:08:12] And so they're basically just, they're basically House of Representatives members.

[00:08:16] That's what the Senate has now become.

[00:08:19] They're just representatives but for the whole state.

[00:08:22] Two of them for the whole state.

[00:08:23] It's just, it doesn't really make, anyway, it's a different topic.

[00:08:26] The point here is that the states call the convention to say,

[00:08:30] hey, feds, we don't like what you guys are doing.

[00:08:33] We've identified something that we want.

[00:08:35] And obviously there are enough of us states that want this thing done.

[00:08:40] Three quarters of them, I think it's 34 states,

[00:08:44] have to sign on to call this convention.

[00:08:47] And when they go to the convention,

[00:08:49] they would then discuss and debate and agree upon, hopefully,

[00:08:55] some proposals or a proposal for a new amendment to the Constitution.

[00:09:02] That doesn't make it part of the Constitution.

[00:09:05] It just means now that amendment proposed has to be run through the same ratification process

[00:09:13] that all of the other amendments have gone through.

[00:09:15] So every amendment proposed by Congress goes through the ratification process.

[00:09:21] Likewise, any proposal out of a convention would have to go through that very same process.

[00:09:27] If you don't trust the legislatures, if you don't trust the people,

[00:09:34] if you don't trust this convention idea,

[00:09:38] then just give up the idea that self-governance is something that you believe in.

[00:09:43] Because the Article V Convention is precisely that.

[00:09:48] It is self-governance.

[00:09:49] And if you think we can't do that, fine.

[00:09:52] You could take that position.

[00:09:53] I disagree.

[00:09:55] But you can hold that position.

[00:09:56] But then I don't want to hear you talking anymore about the democracy.

[00:10:00] I don't want to hear you talking anything more.

[00:10:02] Be the people.

[00:10:03] Just remove that from your lexicon.

[00:10:05] If you don't think that an Article V Convention of States

[00:10:09] can somehow or another be a good and applied example of self-governance,

[00:10:20] then just admit that you don't actually believe in self-governance.

[00:10:24] Because that's actually what an Article V Convention is.

[00:10:28] And North Carolina has taken way too long, in my opinion,

[00:10:31] to sign on to this concept.

[00:10:34] And what they agreed to, what the Senate agreed to last night or yesterday afternoon,

[00:10:39] isn't even the full resolution that was passed in the House.

[00:10:43] It's just a stripped down one.

[00:10:45] It's just one item.

[00:10:47] One issue.

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[00:11:50] So the Senate, the North Carolina Senate,

[00:11:54] passes a resolution calling for a convention of states,

[00:11:59] an Article 5 convention of states,

[00:12:02] and I have the resolution here.

[00:12:05] House Resolution 151 would create an application by the General Assembly

[00:12:09] to the U.S. Congress for a limited convention of the states

[00:12:13] for the purpose of proposing a United States constitutional amendment

[00:12:17] to impose term limits on members of Congress.

[00:12:22] Period.

[00:12:23] That's it.

[00:12:25] That's it.

[00:12:27] That's all they're doing.

[00:12:29] Nothing in there about balanced budget amendment.

[00:12:33] That was one of the things that the Convention of States project

[00:12:39] has been advocating for.

[00:12:40] That was in the House version.

[00:12:43] That did not make it into the Senate version.

[00:12:45] Now, look, if you're opposed to congressional term limits,

[00:12:50] then it makes sense to me that you would oppose a convention of states

[00:12:57] that would look to create a constitutional amendment to impose them.

[00:13:04] That makes sense.

[00:13:04] Right?

[00:13:05] You may not actually be opposed to a convention of states,

[00:13:09] but you're opposed to what they're trying to do,

[00:13:11] so you would oppose the convening of that convention.

[00:13:15] Okay, fine.

[00:13:17] I would rather have the debate.

[00:13:21] I'd rather have the debate.

[00:13:22] I'd rather hear them do it.

[00:13:27] The numbers to keep in mind on this,

[00:13:30] you need two-thirds of the states to call for it,

[00:13:34] so 34 states have to call for the convention,

[00:13:39] and then once an amendment is proposed out of that convention,

[00:13:44] then you would need three-quarters of the states to ratify,

[00:13:49] and that's 38 states.

[00:13:50] That is a very high bar, as I said earlier.

[00:13:53] And the Constitution, Article 5, says these are the two ways to amend the U.S. Constitution.

[00:14:01] This is how you do it.

[00:14:03] Same ratification process at the end,

[00:14:06] but the two ways to create amendments,

[00:14:09] one from the state level,

[00:14:11] which is obviously being pushed up by the people,

[00:14:14] and then the other is through Congress.

[00:14:16] It's much harder to push stuff up via the people.

[00:14:21] Either way, 38 states have to sign on.

[00:14:24] This is why I don't have concerns about the, quote, runaway convention.

[00:14:30] I was talking about Christmas.

[00:14:32] No, I'm kidding.

[00:14:32] I was talking about the fears of a runaway convention.

[00:14:42] I don't have any fear of this.

[00:14:46] The Article 5 convention, so how it would work,

[00:14:48] would be all of the legislatures would send delegates to a certain place.

[00:14:54] I don't know, probably Vegas.

[00:14:56] And you go to Vegas,

[00:14:57] and all of the states can have as many delegates as they want,

[00:15:02] but they're all only representing one state.

[00:15:06] So they go in there,

[00:15:07] and they're like,

[00:15:08] hey, we got some ideas.

[00:15:10] First thing we got to do is create some rules for our convention.

[00:15:12] I know, right, okay.

[00:15:17] This is where people say that the runaway convention will happen,

[00:15:22] that we're going to set up all of these rules,

[00:15:24] and we're going to just abolish the U.S. Constitution.

[00:15:27] No, that's not how that works.

[00:15:31] Just like the Senate has rules for how it operates,

[00:15:34] and the House has rules for how it operates,

[00:15:36] a convention would have rules for how it operates.

[00:15:40] That's the deal.

[00:15:41] That's how it goes.

[00:15:42] And so you create,

[00:15:43] and they haven't abolished the U.S. Constitution.

[00:15:47] I mean, all at once.

[00:15:49] It's a piecemeal thing over the course of the day.

[00:15:51] Anyway, I digress.

[00:15:52] The point here is that they would set up rules like,

[00:15:53] here, you know, we're going to have subcommittees,

[00:15:55] or we're going to break out,

[00:15:56] we're going to have breakout sessions or whatever,

[00:16:00] and they would run through the motions then,

[00:16:02] you know, debate, approve, reject, whatever.

[00:16:08] And then they would have, at the end of this process,

[00:16:11] and by the way, they've run simulations on this.

[00:16:15] Not like computer ones, but actual people gathering

[00:16:18] and running through a simulated Article 5 convention.

[00:16:22] And they end up with like one or two proposals.

[00:16:25] And then those proposals would go back to all of the states.

[00:16:28] Now, if at any point a state delegation started going off the res,

[00:16:33] as they were like, oh, you know what, you sent us here on term limits,

[00:16:36] but we're going to start trying to get a repeal of the Second Amendment.

[00:16:39] Well, the state legislature could then turn around and say,

[00:16:42] okay, you know what, delegates, you come back.

[00:16:45] You're done. Out of the pool.

[00:16:47] That's one fail-safe.

[00:16:50] The other fail-safe is that you would have to get

[00:16:54] enough of these other state delegations

[00:16:56] to agree on whatever proposal you want to come out of that convention.

[00:17:01] And let's say the repeal of the Second Amendment

[00:17:03] does make it out of that convention.

[00:17:05] I find that very hard to believe.

[00:17:07] But let's say it comes out.

[00:17:10] Then you've got to run it through the normal ratification process,

[00:17:15] which Congress already has done.

[00:17:17] It is, you've got to get two-thirds out of both chambers of the Congress.

[00:17:22] The amendment then goes to the states.

[00:17:24] If three-fourths of the states ratify the amendment,

[00:17:26] it becomes part of the Constitution.

[00:17:28] You still need 38 states to vote for it.

[00:17:33] Are you going to get that?

[00:17:35] No.

[00:17:35] So I don't believe in this runaway convention fear-mongering.

[00:17:39] So there was a debate, a little bit of one.

[00:17:42] Todd Johnson, he's a Republican state senator out of Union County,

[00:17:49] he got up and explained why people should vote for this,

[00:17:55] I would say, stripped-down resolution

[00:17:58] that is only about term limits

[00:18:00] as a topic for the Convention of States.

[00:18:06] Eight states have passed this single-issue resolution.

[00:18:10] 34 states are actually required for a convention to be called.

[00:18:14] As history has proven, a convention is very highly unlikely to occur.

[00:18:20] Just as with the situation of Amendment 17, 21, and 22 of the U.S. Constitution,

[00:18:28] a number of states, as the states that had signed onto this

[00:18:32] approached the 34 required to hold the convention,

[00:18:36] Congress actually has taken action to address the concerns of the states.

[00:18:40] Do you hear that?

[00:18:42] As the convention start, the calls for convention start mounting,

[00:18:47] Congress acts.

[00:18:49] Rather than allow the Convention of States to be called and held,

[00:18:53] Congress says, yeah, okay, fine, we'll go ahead and initiate this ourselves.

[00:18:57] For whatever reason, this has been what has happened at least three times

[00:19:01] according to Johnson in the past.

[00:19:02] They ultimately would want, Congress would ultimately want to have control

[00:19:06] over the amendment.

[00:19:07] So they end up fixing it themselves.

[00:19:10] Lifelong career politicians lead to gridlock of what we see in D.C. today.

[00:19:14] So with this resolution, North Carolina would join the other eight states

[00:19:18] to do our part to address issues in D.C.

[00:19:20] I know we don't run legislation or amendments or resolutions based on polling,

[00:19:27] but I did find the most recent poll, just for your consideration,

[00:19:32] this poll was ran in November of this year by Rasmussen.

[00:19:36] Of the term limit amendment, excuse me,

[00:19:40] the term limit constitutional amendment,

[00:19:42] 74% of Republicans support it, 78% of unaffiliated,

[00:19:47] and 83% of Democrats support this.

[00:19:50] Would stand for any question, would appreciate your support.

[00:19:57] Senator Meyer, for what purpose you're on?

[00:19:59] Oh, Greg Meyer.

[00:20:00] Mr. President, I'd like to debate the resolution.

[00:20:02] You have the floor.

[00:20:03] Ladies and gentlemen, let's be clear,

[00:20:06] you are opening the doors to a constitutional convention.

[00:20:09] This is an insane idea.

[00:20:11] I will vote against it.

[00:20:12] Wait, hang on.

[00:20:13] Why is this an insane idea, Democrat?

[00:20:18] Are you saying that we cannot self-govern?

[00:20:21] Are you impugning the democracy?

[00:20:25] Isn't it amazing that when presented with the opportunity

[00:20:30] to support democracy,

[00:20:34] to support people speaking through their legislative body at the state level,

[00:20:39] a body that is much closer to them than Congress,

[00:20:43] in an attempt to rein in the federal government,

[00:20:47] all of a sudden,

[00:20:48] the biggest screamers for the democracy

[00:20:52] are now all of a sudden not so cool with the concept.

[00:20:56] Why is this insane?

[00:20:58] Are you saying that the founders were insane

[00:21:01] for putting this mechanism in place?

[00:21:03] Because that's where this comes from.

[00:21:06] The founders put this in place,

[00:21:08] and this wasn't an afterthought.

[00:21:09] They debated this.

[00:21:10] They made sure there was a way for the states to say,

[00:21:15] yo,

[00:21:15] feds,

[00:21:16] you guys are not addressing this thing that we want addressed.

[00:21:20] We want to change the Constitution for whatever reason.

[00:21:23] We are the seminal authority.

[00:21:25] We are the founders of you.

[00:21:27] So we're going to be able to have a way

[00:21:29] to make you play by the rules that we construct.

[00:21:33] And all of a sudden now,

[00:21:34] it's like, oh,

[00:21:34] this is insane.

[00:21:37] It's not insane.

[00:21:39] It's self-governance.

[00:21:41] But if it happens,

[00:21:42] I will work my butt off

[00:21:44] to be one of the delegates to that Constitution.

[00:21:46] And if you think this is a good idea,

[00:21:48] that should scare the heck out of you.

[00:21:52] Wait, why?

[00:21:55] That it should scare me

[00:21:56] that you're going to work,

[00:21:58] probably unsuccessfully,

[00:21:59] to be named to the delegation

[00:22:01] that would go to a convention of states?

[00:22:03] Why are you saying that you would try to

[00:22:06] to repeal stuff

[00:22:07] and to try to do things

[00:22:10] that Republicans won't like?

[00:22:11] Is that the idea?

[00:22:14] Do it.

[00:22:15] Seriously.

[00:22:16] Do it.

[00:22:18] I hope they do pick you.

[00:22:20] I hope you do go.

[00:22:21] I hope that you do make your case.

[00:22:24] And then when you bring back,

[00:22:25] if you are even able to get

[00:22:27] whatever cockamamie ideas

[00:22:28] you've got floating around in your head,

[00:22:30] if you're able to get enough states

[00:22:32] to support that,

[00:22:34] bring it back to North Carolina.

[00:22:36] Absolutely.

[00:22:37] And then we will vote that crap down.

[00:22:40] That's how that's going to play out for you.

[00:22:43] This is like,

[00:22:44] you can't even,

[00:22:45] he's not even good at fear mongering on this.

[00:22:48] I mean,

[00:22:48] at least with the,

[00:22:48] the,

[00:22:50] you know,

[00:22:50] predictions of economic catastrophe.

[00:22:52] I mean,

[00:22:53] at least there was some data behind that.

[00:22:54] This is just stupid.

[00:22:56] All righty.

[00:22:57] So,

[00:22:59] no,

[00:23:00] Pam,

[00:23:00] the jam,

[00:23:01] well,

[00:23:01] pamthejam,

[00:23:02] warner.com

[00:23:03] is available,

[00:23:04] says Jeff.

[00:23:07] Yeah,

[00:23:08] but it doesn't flow as well.

[00:23:10] Well,

[00:23:10] maybe it's up to her.

[00:23:11] She can choose it.

[00:23:12] Um,

[00:23:14] so last,

[00:23:15] uh,

[00:23:15] thing on the,

[00:23:17] last thing on the,

[00:23:18] the convention of states.

[00:23:21] Lone star wizard says,

[00:23:23] the only problem is that once the states are convened,

[00:23:25] they can change anything.

[00:23:26] They vote to change.

[00:23:28] Be careful what you wish for.

[00:23:29] Um,

[00:23:30] do states get one vote each,

[00:23:32] for example?

[00:23:33] Um,

[00:23:34] yeah,

[00:23:34] they could in,

[00:23:35] in the convention.

[00:23:36] That would be my expectation.

[00:23:37] I don't think that states would be cool with doing like an apportionment vote or anything like that.

[00:23:43] But even if they do that,

[00:23:45] even if they do that worst case,

[00:23:46] like run it through worst case scenario,

[00:23:48] they do it by population.

[00:23:49] You end up with California and New York and Texas and Florida,

[00:23:55] right?

[00:23:56] And so they would battle it out,

[00:23:58] I guess.

[00:23:59] But then let's just say that for some reason,

[00:24:02] the left is able to come up with a whole host of crazy amendments.

[00:24:07] states to propose.

[00:24:09] Okay.

[00:24:10] And then they come back to the states for ratification.

[00:24:13] And 38 states would need to ratify that.

[00:24:16] And do you think 38 states are going to ratify that?

[00:24:18] No.

[00:24:20] Because they're crazy moonbat left-wing ideas.

[00:24:23] Repeal of the second amendment.

[00:24:24] No,

[00:24:25] 38 states are not going to agree to do that.

[00:24:27] So,

[00:24:27] no.

[00:24:28] That's why,

[00:24:29] like I'm,

[00:24:30] this fear of a quote runaway convention to me has never been a legitimate fear.

[00:24:34] It's never been one.

[00:24:36] And

[00:24:37] I've seen all of,

[00:24:38] all the arguments.

[00:24:39] I've been talking about convention of states for 15 years.

[00:24:41] Like I've,

[00:24:42] I've heard all of these arguments and none of them persuade me.

[00:24:47] Get this real quick.

[00:24:49] Dan blue,

[00:24:50] a groundbreaking figure in North Carolina politics across more than 40 years,

[00:24:56] will no longer serve as the leader of the state Senate Democrats.

[00:25:00] After more than a decade,

[00:25:02] he got replaced by another Raleigh area lawmaker.

[00:25:07] The Senate Democratic caucus elected Senator Sidney Batch as the minority leader entering the next two-year session.

[00:25:15] They said that,

[00:25:17] uh,

[00:25:17] they put out a press release.

[00:25:18] The caucus put out a press release saying that he announced his desire to decline another term as leader.

[00:25:25] Except he didn't.

[00:25:28] Dan blue told Brian Anderson,

[00:25:32] um,

[00:25:33] over at Anderson alerts,

[00:25:34] his sub stack.

[00:25:35] He said,

[00:25:36] I found out last week there was a movement afoot.

[00:25:39] That's why we went on and scheduled the leadership vote to just get it done.

[00:25:42] I didn't know that there was this sort of undercurrent.

[00:25:45] Once I learned that some of the members felt that they needed to move on to something new,

[00:25:49] that was fine by me.

[00:25:52] But he said,

[00:25:53] yeah,

[00:25:54] um,

[00:25:55] I guess you could call it a coup.

[00:25:57] Yeah,

[00:25:57] that's probably so.

[00:26:01] Swapping out an old guy for a younger woman of color.

[00:26:04] Like,

[00:26:05] I'm sure that,

[00:26:06] no,

[00:26:07] I bet that strategy is foolproof.

[00:26:09] I bet it's going to work just fine.

[00:26:10] We'll see.

[00:26:13] All right,

[00:26:14] that'll do it for this episode.

[00:26:15] Thank you so much for listening.

[00:26:17] I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast.

[00:26:22] So if you'd like,

[00:26:23] please support them too and tell them you heard it here.

[00:26:25] You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to the Pete calendar show.com.

[00:26:30] Again,

[00:26:31] thank you so much for listening and don't break anything while I'm gone.