NC Governor candidate breaks down the election (11-11-2024--Hour3)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalendershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] I feel like, yeah, I feel like we've heard enough from Sheriff Gary, not my fault, McFadden, for the time being. And also last week, I had arranged to have Mike Ross come in and hang out for a little bit, talk about his run for North Carolina governor. Mike, welcome back to the program.

[00:00:48] Yeah, thanks for having me back on, Pete.

[00:00:50] So I'm good. He was, so Mike, you are not the governor.

[00:00:54] Unfortunately, I did not get the job.

[00:00:55] You did not get the job.

[00:00:57] Um, but aside from that, uh, how, uh, how do you think it went for you guys for the libertarian?

[00:01:04] He was the libertarian candidate for governor.

[00:01:06] Um, when you, you're, I'm sure you guys have looked at the numbers.

[00:01:10] Um, what did you ended up, uh, what, and what, what did you end up getting like as a percentage?

[00:01:16] Yeah, it was about 3.15%.

[00:01:18] Okay.

[00:01:19] Um, and just under 175,000 votes.

[00:01:21] So highest raw vote total, uh, statewide, uh, for any gubernatorial candidate.

[00:01:27] I think that the last time that anybody got more raw votes was like Ross Perot his first time around.

[00:01:32] That's not a Republican or Democrat.

[00:01:34] Right.

[00:01:34] Not, that's not a Republican or Democrat, right?

[00:01:36] Someone to run outside of the uniparty system.

[00:01:38] Um, and you know, ended up being that the highest vote getter there, which is.

[00:01:42] No, I hang on.

[00:01:43] Hang on.

[00:01:43] My job is this.

[00:01:44] It's not vote getter.

[00:01:46] I try to, I'm trying to make this word happen.

[00:01:49] Voteainer.

[00:01:50] Voteainer.

[00:01:51] Yeah.

[00:01:52] It sounds better than vote getter.

[00:01:55] I hate that word.

[00:01:56] It just sounds awkward and clunky, you know?

[00:01:59] Yeah.

[00:02:00] And everybody uses it.

[00:02:01] And I think nobody, I think everybody uses it because they haven't come up with a better

[00:02:04] word for it yet.

[00:02:05] And so years ago in Asheville, a listener came up with that word, voteainer.

[00:02:11] And I'm like, we're going to try to make this happen.

[00:02:13] It's going to take a while.

[00:02:14] It's easier than, you know, going the proper way.

[00:02:17] Right.

[00:02:18] So yeah.

[00:02:18] You were the most votes.

[00:02:19] Yeah.

[00:02:19] So you were the voteainer.

[00:02:21] Right.

[00:02:21] Or the top voteainer.

[00:02:22] You could even do that.

[00:02:23] Yeah.

[00:02:24] I'm just saying.

[00:02:25] Top vote, top voteainer among third party candidates.

[00:02:28] There you go.

[00:02:28] You know, I was running on a system that the two are on a message that the two party

[00:02:32] system is not going to save us, which I still believe today.

[00:02:36] And, you know, I think as a libertarian who is generally pretty distrustful of government,

[00:02:41] I think libertarians in North Carolina have a lot to be happy about.

[00:02:45] Right.

[00:02:45] Because I measure that in, were we able to kind of upset both parties?

[00:02:50] And I think we do.

[00:02:51] When we look at the data, right?

[00:02:52] You look at our chair, Ryan Brown's race.

[00:02:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:02:55] Well, he's the one by his, by his votaining.

[00:03:02] Don't just use it for, yeah, like an at-large race, whoever comes in first.

[00:03:06] So you don't have to say like, oh, the top three vote getters.

[00:03:09] Right.

[00:03:10] You don't have to say that.

[00:03:10] You just say the top three votainers.

[00:03:12] Top three votainers.

[00:03:13] There you go.

[00:03:13] So essentially he covered the spread.

[00:03:16] The Democrat won and broke the super majority.

[00:03:19] And what I find interesting is I, at the top of the ticket, have been calling for constitutional carry.

[00:03:25] Ryan has been calling for constitutional carry.

[00:03:28] Republican voters that I talked to on the campaign trail want constitutional carry.

[00:03:33] Mm-hmm.

[00:03:34] The GOP had a super majority in our state.

[00:03:36] They could have given us constitutional carry, made us the 30th state at any point.

[00:03:41] And our chair ran against the super majority.

[00:03:44] Democrats are, of course, claiming that.

[00:03:46] But if Ryan wasn't there, you know, he was running just on 2A.

[00:03:50] I'm pretty sure his voters probably would have went to the Republican in that stage.

[00:03:54] Right.

[00:03:54] So that's the next thing I was going to ask.

[00:03:57] Is that a – do you guys have any data or any evidence to support that idea that if people don't vote for libertarians,

[00:04:07] then they would generally vote for Republicans absent a libertarian on the ballot?

[00:04:14] So I think it really depends on the candidate, right?

[00:04:16] As libertarians, we tend to look at things from an individualistic perspective, right?

[00:04:21] So we have some candidates that probably would appeal more to the average Democrat voter,

[00:04:27] some candidates that would appeal more to the average Republican voter.

[00:04:30] I had people at my election party that voted for Trump, Chase Oliver, and Kamala Harris, and all voted for me.

[00:04:37] So at least within my race, it'd be really tough, barring anything outside of who volunteers for the team, to really quantify that.

[00:04:45] But I think if you look at the candidate, what is the message that that candidate is running on in their community?

[00:04:51] If they're running on something that tends to be associated with Democrats,

[00:04:57] they're probably going to pull Democrats because that's the message that they're running on.

[00:05:01] Ryan was pretty much running almost exclusively on constitutional carry in the Second Amendment.

[00:05:06] So if that's what he's out there talking to voters in his district,

[00:05:10] I think I'm just kind of maybe giving a little bit of gift to kind of the logical thought process there.

[00:05:15] But if that was the message he was running on,

[00:05:18] I would think that if he wasn't there, people that did that,

[00:05:21] given the choice between Republicans and Democrats based on perception of the parties,

[00:05:25] I think for that race, it's logical to me at least,

[00:05:28] that they probably would have went for the Republican.

[00:05:30] Okay, so then chart out why that's a victory.

[00:05:34] Yeah, I mean, I guess if you break the supermajority,

[00:05:36] now they can't override the governor's veto.

[00:05:39] Governor's going to be Josh Stein.

[00:05:42] So if you, and Josh Stein's not going to do a constitutional carry for you.

[00:05:46] So now the Republicans don't have any opportunity to do that.

[00:05:51] So how is that a victory for the libertarians?

[00:05:54] Potentially.

[00:05:54] So look at the big, when I look at the big picture,

[00:05:57] the National Libertarian Party basically took a gamble, right?

[00:06:00] It's something that is causing a whole bunch of partisan infighting over it.

[00:06:04] I just look at it as, okay, some people have different opinions on strategy.

[00:06:07] But they essentially took a gamble,

[00:06:09] invited both at the time President Trump and President Biden to come address the convention,

[00:06:14] and essentially trying to, rather than fight for that race at the presidential level,

[00:06:20] see if we could get the major parties to make concessions, right?

[00:06:24] Can we move the needle towards liberty?

[00:06:26] There's some libertarians who love it, some libertarians who hate it.

[00:06:29] And I think that we're kind of looking to explore, how do we do that in North Carolina?

[00:06:33] Because there's a lot of issues that I think if there was libertarians in the General Assembly

[00:06:37] that they'd side with Democrats on, and a lot of issues they'd side with Republicans on.

[00:06:41] But I don't think the people of North Carolina are benefiting from libertarian policy.

[00:06:45] So when you look at what happened, right, the Republicans still have the Senate supermajority.

[00:06:50] They could still override the veto there, just not in the House.

[00:06:52] They're one seat short of the House.

[00:06:55] I'm not surprised, based on what I know of politics, if they get another one to flip, right?

[00:07:00] It happened with Tricia Cotham.

[00:07:02] They're putting out feelers.

[00:07:03] Just based on what I know, I think they could probably find one Democrat to switch over with the right incentives.

[00:07:10] You mean flip parties?

[00:07:12] Flip parties like Cotham did, or get the votes.

[00:07:14] But, you know, we didn't break their supermajority by a bunch of seats.

[00:07:17] I don't think so.

[00:07:17] I hope not.

[00:07:18] No, no, no.

[00:07:19] I will tell you, I don't think you're going to see Democrats breaking rank with Josh Stein on any veto overrides,

[00:07:26] particularly in the first term.

[00:07:28] Unless they switch party.

[00:07:29] Right, and I don't see that happening.

[00:07:31] I mean, I hope not.

[00:07:32] I hope that the GOP has to spend two years courting voters for those.

[00:07:37] And that's something that we look at as a party, right?

[00:07:40] And that can all change at party level.

[00:07:41] But we started something called the Liberty Candidate Survey, where our state party sent out surveys to see where do representatives stand on all of these issues.

[00:07:51] And I think the long term, you know, I'm not on the executive committee anymore, but I think the long term process is if we see, because we have to be selective about which races we run.

[00:08:00] Sure.

[00:08:00] Run in every race.

[00:08:01] But if we see that there's a Democrat that is doing really well on liberty issues and a Republican who's not, and they think that that'll help.

[00:08:11] If we if we can push kind of that same strategy that national is doing and adapt it for North Carolina, I think it's something worth exploring.

[00:08:19] I do just at a personal level.

[00:08:20] I know there's some libertarians who may disagree with me, but I would say I would want as a libertarian.

[00:08:25] I want the GOP.

[00:08:27] To be good on gun rights.

[00:08:28] I want us to be the 30th constitutional carry state.

[00:08:32] I lobbied with grassroots in Raleigh when Mark Robinson was out campaigning because I actually want that legislation.

[00:08:38] He didn't lead on it in the campaign.

[00:08:40] I think that probably hurt his percentage based on what I saw.

[00:08:44] I think some other things hurt us.

[00:08:46] There's a lot of things that hurt his percentage.

[00:08:48] I think that's just one of them.

[00:08:49] Yeah, because I can tell you there's quite a few two way voters who told me, Mike, I'm voting for you because you actually believe in this.

[00:08:55] That was their issue.

[00:08:55] If they're a single issue voter, if it's gun rights, I was better than Mark Robinson materially.

[00:09:00] Right.

[00:09:01] But now that's not going to happen.

[00:09:02] Well, there's you're not going to like.

[00:09:07] The messaging has been opposition to the, quote, uniparty.

[00:09:11] But by not by the Republicans not having a super majority to now override gubernatorial vetoes.

[00:09:19] Now, aren't you inducing more, quote, cooperation among Democrats and Republicans, which would be more uniparty ish, would it not?

[00:09:28] Or gridlock.

[00:09:28] I mean, as someone I'm fine with gridlock, too.

[00:09:30] But but if they're but but if if the idea was to advance constitutional carry.

[00:09:36] Sure.

[00:09:37] Do you think your chances are helped or hurt by not being able to override the governor's veto?

[00:09:43] Yeah.

[00:09:44] I mean, I think they were if if the GOP was going to do it when they could over override the governor's veto, they would have done it.

[00:09:51] What I think this does is two years from now, they're going to want that super majority back.

[00:09:54] Mm hmm.

[00:09:55] If they're running on passing constitutional carry.

[00:09:59] At at that point, OK, you got your super majority back.

[00:10:03] You better pass constitutional carry.

[00:10:06] I look at this as the same way I'm looking at Trump's victory.

[00:10:08] Right.

[00:10:09] As a libertarian, I viewed both candidates as people who ultimately grow the government, not restore enough power to the people.

[00:10:16] But there's a couple of things he promised libertarians.

[00:10:18] Right.

[00:10:19] A libertarian in the cabinet, free Ross Albert on day one.

[00:10:22] Mm hmm.

[00:10:23] Those are things that once you kind of put the pressure out there and you have someone run on those things, now you can hold them accountable.

[00:10:29] And tell people who Ross was it.

[00:10:33] Ulbrich.

[00:10:34] Ulbrich.

[00:10:34] Ulbrich.

[00:10:35] Silk Road guy.

[00:10:36] Silk Road guy.

[00:10:37] Right.

[00:10:37] So so essentially he built a Web site, you know, that that's really what he did is he built a Web site.

[00:10:42] Um, and it was a dark Web site, you know, where people would sell all sorts of things that the government, you know, government deems deems illegal, which, you know, happens on Facebook and Instagram and all the all the platforms even today.

[00:10:55] Mm hmm.

[00:10:56] But, you know, they basically threw him in jail for life.

[00:10:59] Uh, and essentially he did the crime of creating a Web site, which, you know, I'm sure there's ancillary crimes that go along with that.

[00:11:06] But crime is happening.

[00:11:07] Right.

[00:11:07] That that's the reality.

[00:11:08] And no one was it for the most part.

[00:11:10] No one's hurt.

[00:11:10] I'm a libertarian.

[00:11:11] You know where I stand on on those things.

[00:11:13] The Web site wouldn't exist if we weren't criminalizing those things in the first part.

[00:11:17] But he's for that, essentially, um, he was shut down.

[00:11:22] And I think there's broader ties as to why the government was targeting at the time.

[00:11:26] When you look at the time Bitcoin was rising, Bitcoin was seen as a threat to the global monetary system for a while.

[00:11:32] They hadn't yet tamed it with futures contracts and things they're they're using from that standpoint.

[00:11:38] Um, but I think the reason that it's to free Ross is he's someone who I think the sentence doesn't really match the crime.

[00:11:46] You have a guy that you're put away for for ultimately creating a Web site that people were selling drugs on.

[00:11:53] Mm hmm.

[00:11:54] Uh, you want to stick around for a sec?

[00:11:56] All right.

[00:11:57] Cool.

[00:11:57] Mike Ross, libertarian candidate for governor.

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[00:13:02] We have in studio with us Mike Ross.

[00:13:04] He was the libertarian candidate for North Carolina governor.

[00:13:08] And are you local?

[00:13:10] You're in Charlotte.

[00:13:11] Yeah.

[00:13:11] You are.

[00:13:12] Yeah.

[00:13:12] Cramerton.

[00:13:12] Cramerton.

[00:13:13] All right.

[00:13:14] So thanks for coming in.

[00:13:16] I appreciate it.

[00:13:17] So how you ended up here was that.

[00:13:19] What was I don't know what day?

[00:13:21] November 7th.

[00:13:21] You said on Twitter, formerly known as X, I kind of want to talk about the election, like the stuff I couldn't talk about while campaigning.

[00:13:32] What is a good podcast to do this on?

[00:13:35] And then I said, hey, doors always open.

[00:13:37] So here you are.

[00:13:39] So no other podcast apparently wanted you.

[00:13:41] So you came here.

[00:13:43] No, I'm kidding.

[00:13:43] No, that's we.

[00:13:46] We confirmed this one that same day.

[00:13:48] Yes.

[00:13:48] Yes.

[00:13:49] To be fair, part of it might have been, you know, podcast fishing.

[00:13:52] Right.

[00:13:52] Like, because you put that out there.

[00:13:53] Absolutely.

[00:13:54] Now I can take the message out further.

[00:13:55] Absolutely.

[00:13:56] You know, so it's a part of that.

[00:13:57] So I got played.

[00:13:58] No, I'm kidding.

[00:13:59] But so, you know, because I wanted to ask you, you know, so is there something specifically you meant when you say the stuff I couldn't talk about while campaigning?

[00:14:08] What is that a reference to?

[00:14:09] And you have you covered some of this already?

[00:14:11] So so very limited outside of my campaign team at our our election party, so to speak, where we watch the numbers.

[00:14:21] But but I I'll go ahead and bring it out here.

[00:14:22] So this is the first kind of public, Pete.

[00:14:24] You know, I ultimately in that booth as a libertarian in North Carolina, check the box next to Donald Trump's name, which to a lot of libertarians, that's going to be pretty controversial because I have people who voted for Trump, Chase Oliver and Kamala Harris who voted for me at my party.

[00:14:40] I had had had people there.

[00:14:44] So I thought I would talk about this in the scope of why I as a libertarian do and ultimately made that choice, because I truly believe that none of them could fix any of the problems.

[00:14:53] I truly everything I said on the campaign trail that I believe that we're going to fix our problems locally.

[00:14:58] We need to decentralize power, push for more localization, lean hard on the 10th Amendment, challenge the 10th Amendment all the way up to the Supreme Court, even if it's local municipalities challenging the federal government.

[00:15:11] I believe if we start a culture of that, that's how we'll claw power back.

[00:15:16] But I chose to ultimately do that because on November 1st, the idea of Ron Paul being put in.

[00:15:24] So it was kind of the tipping factor for me.

[00:15:26] There's there's all these pressure.

[00:15:28] I was I was going to just go party line as the party representative.

[00:15:31] But the opportunity to get Ron Paul, who's pulled so many people into the ideas of libertarianism, close to a sitting president.

[00:15:38] The fact that that was a non zero chance.

[00:15:41] I knew that was a zero chance with with Harris.

[00:15:43] I think everybody knew that Chase couldn't win.

[00:15:47] So to have a non zero chance of having Ron Paul there, that was kind of a deciding factor for me personally.

[00:15:54] And I couldn't say that in the election.

[00:15:56] I had to kind of keep out of it and really just stay straight party line, focus on the positives.

[00:16:01] But, you know, the presidential election ultimately came, I guess, in the form of a carrot on the stick in the form of Ron Paul.

[00:16:08] You dangle Ron Paul in front of libertarians.

[00:16:10] We we tend to get excited.

[00:16:11] You just can't resist it.

[00:16:13] And then it was the combination of.

[00:16:17] Just seeing how much.

[00:16:20] The establishment wanted Harris, I think, is a libertarian.

[00:16:25] The idea that I could both potentially get Ron Paul, even though I really don't think it'll happen.

[00:16:30] I mean.

[00:16:31] Trump has lied on so many campaign promises that it's probably not going to happen.

[00:16:36] Like, why would I?

[00:16:37] You know, you fooled me once.

[00:16:39] Shame on you, because I told everybody up front.

[00:16:41] I voted for him in 2016 on the idea of drain the swamp.

[00:16:43] He made the swamp worse.

[00:16:45] That's why I was really hesitant, even though I was very mad at the media and the establishment that was propping up Harris.

[00:16:53] I didn't want to vote for him because, you know, fool me once.

[00:16:55] Shame on you.

[00:16:56] Fool me twice.

[00:16:57] Shame on me.

[00:16:57] And then he dangles Ron Paul.

[00:16:59] And I guess that was kind of the icing on the cake that, all right, you fooled me twice.

[00:17:02] I hope, you know, I'll just hang on to the hope that that's that he actually delivers on some of the promises.

[00:17:06] Right.

[00:17:07] Things that libertarians get excited about, you know, freeing political prisoners.

[00:17:12] That's something libertarians are pretty excited about.

[00:17:14] Ending the Department of Education.

[00:17:16] You know, I think that that's a big promise that he made to libertarians.

[00:17:20] And if if if he delivers on that, which I don't think he will, I hope he proves me wrong, because at that point, I will say that I'm I'm happy for my vote right now.

[00:17:28] I guess I'm just.

[00:17:30] I got sucked into voting for that system because you dangled Ron Paul in front of me is kind of the icing on the cake and and the media is upholding of Kamala Harris.

[00:17:40] Just take me off.

[00:17:41] You can only insult my intelligence so much.

[00:17:44] Right.

[00:17:45] All right.

[00:17:45] Mike Ross, governor's gubernatorial candidate, Libertarian Party.

[00:17:49] Do you want to I don't know.

[00:17:50] Did we ever tell say how long you're going to be here for?

[00:17:52] I want to be respectful of your time.

[00:17:54] All right.

[00:17:54] So he's fine.

[00:17:55] Mike Ross, the libertarian gubernatorial candidate in studio.

[00:18:00] So and you say you you got the most.

[00:18:04] What total votes for a non uniparty Republican or Democrat candidate.

[00:18:11] In North Carolina.

[00:18:12] Correct.

[00:18:13] And so obviously part of that was the statewide race for a statewide race.

[00:18:18] Right.

[00:18:18] So for I mean, obviously, a lot of that is Mark Robinson's uniquely problematic candidacy.

[00:18:28] You got to write.

[00:18:29] You have to write.

[00:18:30] And I don't know how you account for that.

[00:18:33] I've been trying statistically because that was something.

[00:18:35] OK.

[00:18:37] And statistically kind of how I approached it.

[00:18:39] I was actually surprised.

[00:18:40] I thought that that would have been a much bigger factor.

[00:18:43] OK.

[00:18:44] Because I didn't outperform the rest of the libertarian like Bob Drock.

[00:18:50] Mm hmm.

[00:18:50] I think I only ran for secretary.

[00:18:52] He ran for auditor for auditor.

[00:18:54] Yeah.

[00:18:54] And he ran for auditor, which, you know, I'm not sure that you bet the data shows that they

[00:19:00] abandoned Mark Robinson and then abandoned all of the other Republican candidates.

[00:19:06] Yeah.

[00:19:06] I mean, what Republicans won five of the 10.

[00:19:09] So they lost one seat.

[00:19:10] Lost one seat.

[00:19:11] Which was lieutenant governor.

[00:19:12] Right.

[00:19:13] And I don't see that the data pairs out that way because I expected the Mark Robinson factor

[00:19:21] to be a big difference between myself and some of the other libertarian candidates there.

[00:19:26] I expected Bob to do best.

[00:19:29] I expected Bob to be number one just because he was the only qualified candidate in my eyes.

[00:19:34] He had two lawyers or an accountant for auditor.

[00:19:37] And he's independent, right?

[00:19:39] Like outside of the two party system.

[00:19:41] I expected Bob to be kind of there.

[00:19:43] And we were we were very close in vote total.

[00:19:46] But looking down down ballot, I just.

[00:19:48] So do you remember what he finished with?

[00:19:49] Was it around three percent also?

[00:19:51] Yeah.

[00:19:51] Right around three.

[00:19:52] Over three.

[00:19:52] I think it was 10,000 votes.

[00:19:54] OK.

[00:19:54] The difference between the two of us.

[00:19:57] So, you know, number one and number two for this cycle was was me and Bob.

[00:20:03] But and no way to determine.

[00:20:05] Like with the.

[00:20:08] With Ryan's race, there was no real way to kind of gauge where people would have broke had he not been in that race.

[00:20:14] Right.

[00:20:15] I mean, my thought was, you know, at the top of the ticket, at least with what I was telling people the whole campaign.

[00:20:21] Right.

[00:20:22] I was telling if you were voting for me, I told them, look for libertarians in your in your area.

[00:20:27] Find the local libertarians.

[00:20:29] Look into them and vote for them.

[00:20:30] I felt that was my job at the top of the ticket is to try to improve the results of all libertarians.

[00:20:36] Sure.

[00:20:39] I would have thought if the Mark Robinson factor was as big as I kind of hoped it would, for lack of a better place.

[00:20:48] Right.

[00:20:48] You know, I was hoping for five percent.

[00:20:50] That was the number that was in my head that I thought, OK, that's my personal goal.

[00:20:53] So I I fell short of that one.

[00:20:57] I just don't see the data.

[00:20:58] It's that strangely, it really looks like in looking at the data that a lot of Mark Robinson supporters on paper voted for Josh Stein, which I don't know if I get because I when I look at what Mark Robinson was putting out there and even what just North Carolina Republicans are putting out there.

[00:21:16] I don't think Josh Stein aligns with that.

[00:21:20] So I would have expected to either see drop in turnout.

[00:21:23] Right.

[00:21:23] People who left the ballot blank, people who voted for me or Vinnie Smith.

[00:21:28] Those things would be logical to me.

[00:21:30] But they're at least looking at the raw numbers.

[00:21:33] There appears to be a whole lot of people who were Republican for everything else.

[00:21:38] And then check Josh Stein.

[00:21:40] I was expecting to get more of that.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:43] Yeah.

[00:21:44] Well, I think Andrew Dunn wrote about that in his Longleaf Politics website over the weekend.

[00:21:52] I want to say maybe today I saw it talking about North Carolina's history and the Democrat machine that cultivates.

[00:21:59] And this is like one of the longest running dynasties North Carolina has ever had in Democrat politics with the sort of the continuity.

[00:22:07] Jim Hunt to Roy Cooper, you know, through Bev Perdue, Roy Cooper.

[00:22:13] Now, Josh Stein.

[00:22:14] This is a very long run.

[00:22:15] And Jeff Jackson will probably be the heir apparent.

[00:22:17] Like that's the trajectory.

[00:22:19] And they are, you know, they are sort of these Democrat, I don't want to say caricatures, but these facades that are presented and are palatable to a lot of your sort of middle of the road Republicans, pro-business Republicans.

[00:22:38] And they're like, they're OK.

[00:22:41] They're a safe Democrat.

[00:22:42] Whether they are or not doesn't really matter.

[00:22:45] Right.

[00:22:45] But that's the image.

[00:22:47] Yeah, I mean, I think that that's that's certainly rings true in the data as well.

[00:22:52] Just looking at the split ticket voting that we see there.

[00:22:55] But I saw saw more of that because I look at Josh Stein and as someone who was in that race the whole time I was campaigning when I started, I said regular people in North Carolina are not having a great time right now.

[00:23:09] Right.

[00:23:10] And I think that things that the government is doing are only making it worse.

[00:23:14] So I wanted to talk policy.

[00:23:16] Josh Stein talked no policy and he's the next governor.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:19] He didn't have to.

[00:23:20] No policy.

[00:23:21] No, he didn't have to.

[00:23:22] Not a no debate.

[00:23:23] Mm hmm.

[00:23:25] I went to an event in Durham.

[00:23:28] It was like twelve hundred people.

[00:23:29] It would have been a pep rally for him.

[00:23:31] Right.

[00:23:32] And he sent a representative to read a letter that was addressed to the wrong crowd.

[00:23:35] Oh, and I bet most of those people still voted for.

[00:23:40] Oh, absolutely.

[00:23:41] Which.

[00:23:42] Yeah.

[00:23:42] Durham went.

[00:23:43] I mean, ridiculous number for him.

[00:23:46] Yeah.

[00:23:46] To me, that's.

[00:23:48] That's why I have so little faith in the system, because if we're willing to overwhelmingly elect, because I mean, the reality, look at his, you know, 50.

[00:23:55] What was he at?

[00:23:56] 55, 56 percent of the vote, something like that.

[00:23:58] That's pretty overwhelming approval of Josh Stein.

[00:24:03] And he ran on no policy.

[00:24:05] He has no real meaningful record.

[00:24:07] Like, yes, he's the attorney general, but he's he's running on, you know, the big thing that he ran on was what?

[00:24:12] Clearing out the rape kits, which he was ordered to do by the General Assembly.

[00:24:15] Right.

[00:24:15] A long time ago.

[00:24:16] Well, and that's what Roy Cooper claimed to have done as well.

[00:24:20] It's like, wait a minute.

[00:24:21] Who's actually responsible for clearing these out?

[00:24:23] Because Cooper claimed credit for it.

[00:24:24] And then Stein comes along right after him is like, we're going to clear it out, too.

[00:24:27] It's.

[00:24:28] Yeah.

[00:24:28] Yeah.

[00:24:28] I mean, I honestly, part of me just wonders, you know, what?

[00:24:32] What what Josh Stein really did, because I know that at least as a citizen, take take me out of the election in my life.

[00:24:38] I only had to reach out to an attorney general one time in my life to try to help somebody else.

[00:24:43] It was from the root of my activism.

[00:24:46] Tried to contact Josh Stein myself.

[00:24:48] Had the guy who was victimized.

[00:24:50] Try to contact Josh Stein.

[00:24:51] Even wrote a letter for him to sign and send.

[00:24:55] I mean, no.

[00:24:56] So not so much as a response.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:58] Right.

[00:24:58] Like, you know, he's claiming to be.

[00:25:01] And presenting himself like he's there for regular people.

[00:25:06] Did you not see his sweater vest?

[00:25:09] Yeah, I just.

[00:25:10] That's.

[00:25:11] He's one of you.

[00:25:12] He's one of us.

[00:25:13] I mean, it's just it bothered.

[00:25:14] It bothers me because I didn't think Mark Robinson was a good candidate.

[00:25:17] I thought he was going to lose from the get go.

[00:25:21] But I just I just feel bad for everyone else in North Carolina because we literally have someone elected that we have.

[00:25:26] We have no idea what they believe.

[00:25:28] We have no idea.

[00:25:29] We want to.

[00:25:29] Well, yeah, we do.

[00:25:30] Actually, let me.

[00:25:32] We know more about what he believes.

[00:25:34] Then what does he want to do?

[00:25:36] Yeah.

[00:25:36] Because I don't know if I know what he actually wants.

[00:25:39] He is going to veto anything that comes out of the Republican legislature.

[00:25:42] And that's going to be enough, I think.

[00:25:44] Yeah, that's that's all.

[00:25:45] That's it.

[00:25:46] That's that's a role.

[00:25:47] Yeah, that's it.

[00:25:48] And I'm going to try to lead on anything.

[00:25:50] No, I mean, yeah.

[00:25:51] MSMEC appearances to Mike Ross is in studio with us.

[00:25:55] He is the candidate was the candidate for the elections over Pete.

[00:25:59] The elections over.

[00:26:00] Sorry, I'm still traumatized.

[00:26:02] So he was the libertarian candidate for governor.

[00:26:05] And so you obviously did not win the election.

[00:26:12] But that is not a reason for people to not get involved.

[00:26:17] I say this all the time.

[00:26:19] Right.

[00:26:20] If good, competent people don't offer up their time and their expertise, then we will be governed by bad and incompetent people.

[00:26:30] So I want more people involved.

[00:26:32] And you can get involved at the at the very local level.

[00:26:36] I talk about, you know, people doing HOA stuff.

[00:26:38] But, you know, you don't have to just jump in and run for president.

[00:26:42] Right.

[00:26:42] There's a whole bunch of stuff in between.

[00:26:45] Yeah.

[00:26:45] And I think that that's really what I view is the solution to most of these things, because we're busy fighting over who's president, who's in Congress, who's writing all these laws.

[00:26:54] Because the reality is local elections could be the most powerful elections because they control everything.

[00:27:00] The problem is we have such low turnout, sometimes 10, 20 percent because they're done in these off years.

[00:27:07] If you could get massive turnout in a local election, like 80, 90 percent, like more turnout in a local election than a presidential, at least if you if you view the idea of democracy.

[00:27:18] Right.

[00:27:18] That that idea of democracy.

[00:27:20] I think that localized democracy there, you're essentially by participating more heavily in it, even if it's just a vote, you're granting more authority to the your local government at that point than you are to your president.

[00:27:31] And I think that, you know, I it impacts people on a daily basis in ways that people are unaware.

[00:27:40] Well, what I see is the problem with it, with a lot of local governments, because there's the things that it does right, that the tasks that they're doing, making sure that the roads are maintained and things like that.

[00:27:50] But local government to me is the biggest solution if they had the courage to do that.

[00:27:56] I think the problem is so many local politicians just become a cog in this machine.

[00:27:59] Mm hmm. Right.

[00:28:01] They want to get this money from the federal or the state government.

[00:28:03] So they're happy to just go along with this.

[00:28:05] I think if we were able to truly get principled people who want to take care of those those basics, but defend our rights and our freedoms from abuses of higher level government.

[00:28:15] I firmly believe that is what we as Americans should be doing.

[00:28:19] And if our local politicians are not doing that currently, we should run against them.

[00:28:25] And if the local parties are telling you not to do it anyway and then go talk to all your neighbors and make a mandate for your local politicians to actually be the shield that the federal or state government should be in the eyes of so many people.

[00:28:38] But in many cases, fails to do, because if you can unify your local community, there's very little the federal or state government can do without your community support.

[00:28:47] So I just want to see people get involved in local elections.

[00:28:50] I think if we do that and get engaged and talk on issues, I think the long run, that's good for North Carolina.

[00:28:55] It's good for America.

[00:28:56] But people and that's saying people have to be willing.

[00:28:59] Yes.

[00:29:00] To do it.

[00:29:00] Yes.

[00:29:00] And a lot of people are not willing to do it.

[00:29:03] And I understand why.

[00:29:04] But you don't have to do it forever.

[00:29:06] No.

[00:29:06] You just do it for a couple of years and then let somebody else do it.

[00:29:09] Yep.

[00:29:10] That's the idea, I would think.

[00:29:12] So good to have you in.

[00:29:13] Good to see you again.

[00:29:14] Enjoy your newfound freedom.

[00:29:16] I will enjoy it.

[00:29:18] All right.

[00:29:19] That's Mike Ross, Libertarian candidate for North Carolina governor.

[00:29:22] All right.

[00:29:22] That'll do it for this episode.

[00:29:24] Thank you so much for listening.

[00:29:25] I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast.

[00:29:30] So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here.

[00:29:33] You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecalendorshow.com.

[00:29:39] Again, thank you so much for listening.

[00:29:41] And don't break anything while I'm gone.