NC Democrats: Increase taxes on disaster victims! Voters are too ignorant to vote! | Hour 2

What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all of the links, become a patron, go to dpeteclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free, rite to your smartphone or tablet, and again, thank you so much for your support. Just a personal note here, I am I'm playing injured here. Burnt my tongue on some coffee and so I've got a bit of a like a sore spot on my tongue. I don't need your sympathy or anything like that. I'm just letting you know if I'm mispronouncing words more than usual, that that is probably why. Okay, So the North Carolina Legislature, we've got two referendu that are going to be on the November ballad for us. Now, the legislature has passed both of these, picking up support from former Democrats now One affiliated's Carla Cunningham and Nasif mjeb and that gave them the two thirds votes in order to get this stuff through and the super majorities, and one of them is a cap on the income tax. The other is a what's called a levy limit, which will cap the increase that local governments can can slap on you for property taxes. Okay, So property tax cap, an increase cap, and an income tax cap. So this was from the Senate debate on the floor. And for the income tax cap of three and a half percent, it is right now already in the Constitution, has been for decades and decades. Right now, it's seven percent. They're going to take that cap down to three and a half. The current income tax, it is a flat rate for everybody, is three point nine to nine percent. They're going to drop it to three point five. It is already set to drop to three point four to nine. Okay, So the cap is actually going to be point zero one percent higher than what the tax rate will be next year it drops to three point four to nine And if we approve in the referendum, the Constitution will then basically freeze it almost right where it is. Okay. So Democrats are opposed to this. The end of the last hour, you heard Mike Daisley call in, and you know he's apparently. Opposed to it as well. He didn't like the idea of these caps. And they're making this into an argument against the millionaires and billionaires. Okay, that's that's their argument. That's their only argument. It's you know, as a former governor Jim Martin used to say, uh, see that man behind the tree, go tax him, don't tax me, right, So they're going to tax the millionaires, tax the billionaires, hit them with more money or more taxes. And this gets to basic economics when it comes to taxation, which is, if you want more of something, you tax it less. If you want less of something, you tax it more, okay. And so when you reduce people's income taxes and you allow them to keep more of their money, then there is a greater incentive for them to make more money because they get to keep more of their own earnings. And businesses with the corporate income tax, businesses want to relocate here. They then employ people who then make money in the state. And there are new taxes now because you've had people move to the state, businesses move to the state, you have more taxes coming into the treasury. That's what we call growth. Okay. Growth. So when you lower the income taxes, you get more growth, you get more businesses, you get more people. You're broadening out the tax base. Okay, the pie grows. See a lot of people on the left see the pie as zero sum. If I have a bigger piece, you have to have a smaller piece. But that's not true. It is growing the size of the pie. And as you grow the size of the pie, then there's more money that comes into the government through the taxes on the businesses and people that were not here before. Right, that's why we are a destination for people and businesses and have been for a couple decades. Now we're like, was it we had the. Largest population growth in America in Charlotte. Okay, so Democrats do I don't like this one bit. And here's Senator Candy Smith from Edgecombe and Pitt Counties. She said the state needs to be able to collect more taxes in the event of natural disasters. She proposed an amendment to allow for the cap to be suspended for two fiscal years in the event of a federally declared emergency. The people in Swannanoah, in Chimney Rock, in Princeville, in Lumberton, in every community this state has had to rebuild. They're not asking for much, They're just asking that when the worst days of their lives come, their state government can still do his job and protect them. So a vote against this amendment is. A vote to tail those communities in writing and in the Constitution that protecting the tax rate matters more than protecting them. So I do not believe a single member of this chamber actually believes that. So let's not false choice. Yeah, Ralph Hyes, the Republican from Mitchell County, he opposed this amendment. I can't imagine that this body thinks the solution to that is that we would begin to increase the tax burden on people who have gone through a major disaster. The solution to the state is, when we have a disaster, we will suspend the three point five rate of the Constitution so we can take more of your money. Right, really, people think that's an actual solution. The solution here is to have reserves in the state of North Carolina and be prepared for these type of events that are coming. Something we have done and something we will continue to do, and we will continue to build a savings reserve in this state to be able to deal with natural disasters that come in, not use this time as an opportunity and use a governor's decklation of disaster to be some trigger that allows us to violate our own constitution and raise the taxes. Members, I simply ask you to vote no on this amendment. Yeah, they didn't get a chance because it was ruled out of order. The amendment was and Senator Michael Lee, who is the majority leader and the sponsor of the bill, said he was not willing to raise taxes on people suffering from a disaster either. Right, So look there. If this argument sounds kind of wacky to you, keep in mind there isn't an argument that Democrats can make here that doesn't give away the game, which is they want to raise your taxes. Like That's that's why it sounds weird when they try to make these wacky arguments because because like she is literally saying that, like, oh, in a disaster, then we're going to be able to raise the taxes on the people who just got nailed by this disaster, and when like she probably didn't even think of that because in her mind, she's thinking of some other group of people that's paying that tax and they want to tax other people that they very much want, you know, to target taxes. And this becomes very clear during this floor debate. Democrats want to institute a marginal tax rate. They want to go to different tiers, like at the federal level where if you make more money, you pay a greater percentage, and in North Carolina it's a flat rate for everybody across the board. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. 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I will get to your text messages. I got to get through some of this audio. This is State Senator Sophia Chitlick, Democrat from Durham, and she says capping the income tax at three point five percent does not provide tax relief at all. This amendment, which I am speaking to, would protect about forty six thousand wealthy people for ever paying their fair share. It would enshrine in our. Constitution, which I hope we all feel is a sacred document. Are forever tax cap for millionaires and billionaires who don't need it and who didn't ask for it? Okay, first off, I think they would ask for it, probably have some some of them have asked for it. But this is the class warfare argument, right, This is the Marxist view of things, winner, loser, oppress or oppressed, So go tax the man behind the tree, right, That's what she's channeling that this is the Democrat Party. Okay, the DSA wing in the Democrat Party. They're just more open about their you know, Marxism. But that's what she's talking about. Oh, they need to pay their fair share, in other words, a marginal tax rate. So let's call this amendment, this bill what it is, a tax break for millionaires and our own latch ditch attempt to drive turnout a year when the economy is not looking so good. Okay, I don't care if it is a turnout mechanism. Awesome. How dare those Republicans give their voters what they want? You? Actually, this is yeah, you guys do this too, Like this idea that Democrats don't play this game. Either that Democrats don't promise constituents to do things for them in order to win election. That yeah, absolutely they do. Or if they're trying to raise their taxes, maybe they put that referendum in an off year right where they're not up for reelection, so this way, you'll vote for that sales tax when you know, city council isn't on the ballot, or something like that. Our own economists are telling me that if these handouts to millionaires continue. Okay, hang on it's not a handout. Chitlick, It's not a handout. It's their money, right, they earned the money. It's their money, not your money. Their money. It's not a handout. Handout would be that like you took their money and handed it out to one of your constituents that did not earn it. That's a handout. The Caid costs are pushed to the state, we could be looking at up to a five billion dollar structural deficit by twenty thirty two. Right if the federal government pushes the Medicaid costs to the state, which is why some people like me were saying, do not expand this medicaid program, as Roy Cooper kept pressuring the legislature to do, because at some point the Feds are going to stop funding it. When they do, then it's going to be on the state. What's the plan then. Meanwhile, we don't even have a plan for now. I'm embarrassed that while we are discussing this useless amendment, senior's children and working people in my district and in yours are really struggling. My inbox is flooded every day with frantic requests to pass a budget that brings them real relief. Just this week, I got an email from a retired state employee in my district who told me that she has maxed out her credit card to buy gas and that she has to give her own blood to put food on the table. Yeah. I've sold plasma, so yeah, you can make good money sell in plasma. And don't even get me started on the notes from hundreds of teachers or the eighteen thousand families on the innovation waiver wait list, because I don't see tissues on anyone's desk. Boom at a president. Once again, my colleagues, out of order. I am speaking directly to the implications of this amendment on our fiscal future. She is not mad a president or not. I am, No, you're not. Go ahead, send your chip like please stick to the. Amendment instead of meeting today to give constituents like them real relief or to solve real problems like our crumbling school buildings or the hundreds of millions of dollars we need to find to finance snap administration, or the rampant closures. Of childcare services. Is not about the care talking. About faith problems like adding something that is already law to our constitution. And won't do a darn thing to make life easier for people in our state. To the people of North Carolina, do not be fooled. This amendment is not about care. It is about choreography. To my colleagues, theatrics during a moment of grade need is a waste of time and it is a slap in the face to the families who are counting on us to help them. Okay, So, once again, it's all emotive, performative hyperbole. That's all. It's about stuff that is not related to a cap on the state income text. Why is she making all of these wacky arguments, Well, once again, it's because she doesn't want to have to say the thing that she really wants to say, which. Is I want to raise your taxes. That's why they don't come up with any kind of cogent relevant argument here. Here's val apple White said you can't vote for it because she doesn't know the unintended consequences, and that Republican leaders did not include Democrats in drafting this bill. At least having a discussion about it. It's like take it or leave it. That's where we are in this legislature and what we see here today on this floor. The tension is a cause of that because we do not collaborate and into my Republican friends, when you bring these things together and come up with these rates. I hate to say, you all were not. Always the smartest ones in the room. There's some people that work at had been a local government that want to say, hey, what about this? But you don't invite us into that. You don't even want to hear our ideas and then expect for us to say, here's the bill, take it or leave it. Well, I am going to leave it. Yeah, we're going to leave it. Yeah. That. But I came up with some a couple of other questions because I heard that every year we've we have like a billion dollars in surplus, all this money floating around, So right, we may have a crystal ball to say that that will continue. But I started thinking, I stand on this floor asking for tax exemption for veterans hundred percent. Well, I understand the impact that it will have on counties, but if we have a billion dollars floating around all the time, why can't we take some of that billions of dollars and give veterans one hundred percent tax exemption. There's the money right there, and if. We have we're so sure we're going to have a billion dollars more in revenue, Well, why don't we go. Ahead and fund our public schools. Okay, keep your opportunity scholarship money. But also, since you've had a president, our friend and colleague over there is not debating the bill, she's debating other legislation. I'd appreciate she speak to the bill. Please stick to the bills. To drop a white. I knew that would happen. I knew he wor very easily. You're so foolish. That's also that's not appropriate. You're triggered so easily, you're so foolish. That's name calling by a legislator on the floor of the House like that's usually not acceptable. I am speaking about the bill because this tax rate, the ceiling of this tax rate is problematic in a lot of areas, particularly for the municipal governments, their ability, the impact that will have on municipal governments. And several times in committee I've heard the talking point, well, you know, they just need to cut services. What services will they cut? Fire there? It is healthcare. And I think this will ultimately have an impact on local state government. Yeah, which are funded by property taxes. But here's the thing. I've given you this example, and there was right there from apple White, which is, we can't cut anything. What do you want us to cut core services like fire and police? They always go to police and fire, which are the core things that government is set up to address and to provide. They always threaten you with cuts to that rather than all of the other things that they spend all their money on. This is the state telling cities and counties basically like you need to prioritize core constituent services. Back to the audio we go. Here is State Senator Natalie Murdoch, Democrat from Chatham and Durham Counties. She also raised this natural disaster scenario. But the last time a Democrat argued the disaster scenario didn't really work, and so she said, she figured, you know what, what. About two disasters? There's another disaster that comes right. So maybe now you guys will be opposed to a three point five percent income tax cap. Huh, maybe we will pay now or we will pay later for handicapping. This body to have fiscal flexibility, it is to do what is best for this state. In previous debates, we were told by this majority that our state believes in a strong legislative body, a strong legislature. I've heard that a number of times. So this amendment isn't needed. It first will not put a dimond people's pockets, but it is ironically perfectly timed for the fall election, given voters false hope that they will have more money in their pockets, and it's parking. I'm already get in text messages. Oh, this is going to be added to the constitution. Yes, overnight, my rate is going to go to three point five percent. Right, that is what some voters think. That is why we can continue to be called out of order, and that's fine. We have a right on behalf of the voters to communicate with them. That is why we're speaking against it, because it's confusing. They're not legislators, they don't do this work every day. So we want to make clear that folks know at this time, for one, their taxes are not going to go down, and we will pay now or we will pay later. And we need to be best equipped for the next Haleene, the next Matthew. Is not a matter of if, it's a matter of. When m okay, yeah, and as Ralph Hies already addressed this, like, that's why you have a reserve fund. That's why you have the rainy day Fund's why you pile up savings billions of dollars so when disaster strikes, then you you take that money. That's how you do that. But basically she's calling she's calling voters stupid. They're not legislators, they don't understand this stuff. Well, yeah, they know that three point five is lower than three point ninety nine. So there's a cap on the income tax at three point five to five. Yeah. Then Senator Lisa Grafstein, Democrat from Wake County, she then called this a bait and switch for working class and middle class people. For some reason. The basic problem is that our flat tax structure means capping the rate largely benefits. High income earners. There it is, a flat tax is regressive, and this amendment would enshrine in our constitution the unwillingness of this body to ensure that the wealthiest among us pay their fair share. Okay. She then started talking about school vouchers, the lack of an adopted budget, how we should have a marginal tax rate, not a flat tax rate, and that prompted a question from state Senator Michael Lee. Talking about a marginal tax rate, and this doesn't it doesn't eliminate a marginal tax rate because we have a flat tax in North Carolina. Are you proposing that we should have a marginal tax rate and increase taxes? I'm not suggesting. Well, I guess what I'm suggesting is that the flat tax is the problem, and most states in the federal government have a marginal tax rate because it's considered a fair system. And so what those tax rates would be I think is a point for discussion, which I will get to in a bit. But thank you for your questions. Enatorly spoiler, she. Never got to it because he called right. You could hear her fumbling for the answer there. So are you saying you want a marginal tax rate? H? Well, well, I mean they're at the federal level. I'll come back to that, right, So they're making an argument for the marginal tax rate system so they can soak the rich, so the rich can then leave the state, because that's we used to have this, I believe, and they they got rid of that. They went to a flat tax. The Republicans did, and when they did, now the state's been booming. She then proposed an amendment to eliminate the state income tax for incomes under fifty eight thousand dollars and everybody else stays at the seven percent cap, and a future General Assembly could impose a higher marginal tax on wealthier residents. That was her proposal. So, yeah, you have the cap, and then this way we can you keep the cap at seven eliminate the income tax for everybody under the media in a fifty eight thousand so they pay no taxes, and then that gives future legislatures the ability to do a marginal tax rate of up to seven percent on the millionaires and billionaires, which gives away the game. This is the game they're playing. They want to raise taxes. They know they can't tell you that, so they're trying to come up with all these wacky arguments to try to avoid saying the thing that they actually want to do. And by the way, the Democrats never mention the standard deduction that shields the first I think it's thirteen thousand dollars of income from the income tax. The standard deduction comes right off the top. And then what's left is what you get taxed on. So people in the lower incomes they pay less money because of the standard deduction. Then State Senator Jay CHOEDERI from Wake County, also a Democrat, also echoed the millionaires and billionaires line. This amendment doesn't lower your taxes. It just makes sure that millionaires billionaires never pay more because this is a flat tax. And so no matter what happens to our schools, our roads, our communities, natural disasters, we will have this tax rate. And that's not fiscal responsibility. That's just a permanent giveaway to millionaires. And I urge my colleagues to vote no. Okay, So again, this ensures that millionaires and billionaires never pay more. They actually do pay more because they make more money. They pay more. What you want is for them to pay a disproportionately more amount of money. Right, So if I like, let's say the cutoff is two hundred thousand dollars income, and you say everybody under two hundred thousand you get to enjoy a lower tax rate. So your lower tax rate on one hundred thousand is less is less real dollars to the treasury. But if you make above the two hundred k, then we're going to tax you at seven percent, which is way more money real dollars. However, a flat tax, as we have a flat rate right, generates a lot more revenue from the wealthier people in real dollars currently. You just want more of it, That's what they're saying. And I say this as one who is firmly not in that millionaire and billionaire camp. Okay, I have nowhere near that tax rate, that tax or that income level. Again, they are telling you what they want to do if they ever gained control of the legislature. And for people who were not here prior to twenty eleven, you don't remember you were because you weren't here, you don't know how they governed. But this is how they governed, and it's why we were running structural deficits every year. Of over a billion dollars. That's why we are not any longer because Republicans reformed the system. First clip. Both of these are val Applewhite. She is the. She's the woman that former Governor Roy Cooper recruited to primary Kirk Devier. He was a Democrat and he voted with Republicans a few too many times. He was a blue dog Democrat, and so the leadership primaries him and puts val Applewhite into that district. Here's what she said on the floor of the Senate regarding his vote on the income tax cap. Specifically, I want to follow up on Senator Lee's comments. I worked for a nonprofit organization years ago when we had the six or eight amendments and we were advocating in the community. I can tell you most people did not even understand what a constitutional amendment was, never mind what amendment's meant. And I am talking about thousands of people. I represented the southeastern North Carolina. But we all came back together and we're like, people don't even know what a constitutional amendment is. If there isn't a better indictment of the K twelve school system than that they don't even know what a constitutional amendment is. Yet you want more and more, You want everybody to vote. Right, we can't have any voter integrity laws because there can't be a single obstacle to anybody voting. But they don't even know what a constitutional amendment is. Okay, that's the reality. So no one's saying that our public is like ignorant. They just don't understand it. Yeah, No, that is what you're saying. You're literally saying they don't know what a constitutional amendment is. That means they are ignorant of what a constitutional amendment is. So you are, in fact saying that very thing. And we and I asked in committee, is there an educational component to this? It is not. So I am personally not saying that. You know, there's ignorance, but people don't know. What they don't know. That is literally ignorance. That is the definition of ignorance. You're not saying all these voters are ignorant. They just don't know, which is ignorance. We're trying to educate them on a bill. They're like, well, what is a constitutional amendment? My master's agree is in political science, and that was one of the papers that I wrote. Most Americans do not understand civics, right. This is not Valiable White's position. It's a reality. It's not taught in school. So I want to be sure. I want people to hear me to say that I am in no way saying that you're ignorant. People just don't know what they don't know, and they don't understand the full implications of it. Yes, they can read a sentence, but do they know what it means? So they're ignorant, is what you're saying, right, So they are ignorant, and the K twelve system has not been teaching them civics for multiple generations. It sounds like she's saying, which is weird because I kind of remember Lieutenant Governor Dan Forest shepherding through a bill that required Civics as a class in order to graduate, and Democrats fought them on that. It almost makes you wonder if that is the desirable outcome. They don't want people understanding civics. They just want people to go vote for a particular candidate for free stuff maybe, or for campaign promises and such. Do they really understand how it impacts them. It does not. I'm struggling to understand. And of my masters agree, and I sit in finance. So let's not assume that people have the same educational level that and understanding that we have in this room. We're talking about high school graduates. We're talking out senior citizens. Oh, we're talking about people. That may even struggle to read period. So we've got to get out of this. Conundrum that we're in here and think about the real citizens that are going to go to the polls this November. So they can't read, but you want them to vote, got it? Okay? Yeah, that so I guess you don't have to read, except you just know what that D looks like next to people's names, so they could just like find it to give you the palm card. I can go and just like line it up or whatever like that is. Quite the indictment on the education system, which has been controlled by the left for forty years at least. But wait, there's more. Here's what she said in committee. So what you're saying is that the average mom who's taking kids to school every day understands the implications of this constitutional amendment, thoroughly understands this. Certainly, I give that mom the credit that she deserves to see that the top rate is no longer going to be seven percent and it's going to be three and a half percent, and that with the way things have been going for the last few years and prices going up and everybody feeling the strain, I think that mom is going to be thankful that the top rate can't be seven percent and it's going to be three and a half percent. All right, So if we're keeping a list of all the people that Val Applewhite, who was obviously the superior candidate for that district versus Kirk Devier. If we're keeping a list of all the people that she thinks are too stupid, don't call them ignorant, but I guess too stupid to understand what the ballot measure says, which is simply to cap the income tax rate at three and a half percent, four or against. Let's see, we've got now moms. So all you mothers out there, Val apple White things you're too stupid to understand what that ballot language is about high school graduates, So I guess people who don't go on to college like she did. But even she doesn't understand it. So now like that's an indictment on wherever she went to college if she doesn't understand. So college or high school graduates, the illiterate moms. Yeah, and there was another group that she had said there at the end, too, so like there's a whole bunch of people there. Now, what was hilarious about this is after she made these comments on the floor of the Senate, the Senate Minority leader Sidney Batch, she took to the floor and she had already spoken, but she got back onto the floor and she had to say, nobody is calling North Carolinians ignorant. Yes, Senator Batch Val apple White did all right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.