Jewish & Muslim women's rights group leader on ICC's arrest warrants (05-21-2024--Hour3)

[00:00:00] What's going on?

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[00:00:29] And I want to welcome to the program, Paula Kwestken.

[00:00:31] She is the founder and the director of The Collective, a grassroots organization of Jewish

[00:00:36] and Muslim women united in creating peace amid the Israel Hamas war.

[00:00:42] Paula, welcome to the program.

[00:00:44] How are you?

[00:00:45] Doing well.

[00:00:46] Thanks for having me.

[00:00:47] Certainly.

[00:00:48] So first, I guess, tell us a little bit about what is The Collective?

[00:00:51] Sure.

[00:00:53] I'm a human rights lawyer and filmmaker, and I've been doing all sorts of advocacy and human

[00:01:00] rights work for the last decade.

[00:01:03] I'm from Charlotte originally based in Israel.

[00:01:07] And when the war started in October, I was very pleasantly surprised when several Muslim

[00:01:13] women in my network who I had worked with before on different women's rights projects

[00:01:18] started reaching out to me, expressing their solidarity and their support and their deep

[00:01:23] concern.

[00:01:24] And so this was a real moment of light for me in a very dark time.

[00:01:29] And we just started meeting on Zoom every week, right in the third week of October.

[00:01:35] And we've been meeting regularly ever since on Zoom and bringing other women in.

[00:01:41] And our mission is pretty simple, which is an alternative narrative, one that does not

[00:01:48] see as necessary a war between Muslims and Jews, and is very committed and clear in saying

[00:01:55] no to terrorism, no to anti-Semitism and to hatred in all its forms.

[00:02:01] So was the, you said, the outreach from some of the Muslim women in your network that it

[00:02:09] gave you a great deal of hope in a dark time, was that unexpected for you?

[00:02:13] And have you thought about if so, why was it unexpected or was it expected?

[00:02:18] Right.

[00:02:19] I mean, I should have known from these incredible women who I've known for so long that I shouldn't

[00:02:24] have been surprised.

[00:02:25] But I think in those very dark days, I'm sure everyone remembers that there was a horrific

[00:02:31] attack by Hamas on Israel on October 7th.

[00:02:36] Over fifteen hundred people were killed, two hundred were taken hostage.

[00:02:39] And it was just the darkest and most horrific of days.

[00:02:44] And within only a few days, there were protests all over the world, especially in the Muslim

[00:02:50] world, against Israel before there had been any retaliation, before any additional actions

[00:02:58] had been taken by Israel.

[00:02:59] And so for many of us seeing not only that horror unfold, but then on top of it to see

[00:03:07] the hatred and anti-Semitism in so many different cities around the world, it was such a gut

[00:03:13] punch. And so I think by watching the news, I just felt so alone.

[00:03:18] And I know many people did.

[00:03:20] And so when they started reaching out one by one, I realized that, of course, there

[00:03:24] is a moderate and peace filled narrative that's just not being amplified.

[00:03:29] Well, you can't trust the media, Paula.

[00:03:31] Come on, take it from me.

[00:03:35] So I'm curious also, you mentioned you're a lawyer and a filmmaker.

[00:03:41] So I'm kind of curious, what came first there?

[00:03:45] And did you like abandon one of those to pursue the other?

[00:03:49] Or how did that happen?

[00:03:50] Yeah, it's a good question.

[00:03:52] I studied law at UNC Chapel Hill and took the bar.

[00:03:56] And then I was practicing international law, actually doing a lot of work for the United

[00:04:03] Nations, and immediately became very disillusioned and thought, how can this be

[00:04:09] international law? How can this be human rights?

[00:04:12] Which we could talk about for hours, of course, and the problems in that system.

[00:04:17] And I happened to get into media and film and I fell in love with it.

[00:04:21] And I always say that that's my courtroom because I use film and media to really

[00:04:25] advance global women's rights.

[00:04:27] I started a nonprofit called the 49%, which is the percentage of women in the world is

[00:04:33] only 49%.

[00:04:34] And out of all of that work is how I started to meet these incredible, diverse women

[00:04:39] from all over the world.

[00:04:41] And the collective is a grassroots project of the 49%.

[00:04:46] So I use my human rights law and I use that background to inform all the work that we

[00:04:52] do. But I'm not submitting reports to the United Nations anymore.

[00:04:57] Okay, all right.

[00:04:58] So I am kind of curious because I'm sure you saw what just came down from the the

[00:05:03] ICC at the UN about the war crimes, arrest warrants and such for Benjamin Netanyahu.

[00:05:11] And so I'm curious, like, what's your take on all of that?

[00:05:15] Well, it's absolutely a disgrace.

[00:05:17] It's absurd in every single way.

[00:05:21] First of all, the way that the ICC and the Rome statute work is that it's meant to

[00:05:28] sort of fill in the gaps when there's not an independent judiciary in countries.

[00:05:32] And we all know that Israel is a thriving democracy.

[00:05:36] I mean, every week there's protests on the streets and we have an independent

[00:05:41] judiciary and a parliament and full and free elections.

[00:05:45] So inherently, it's a ridiculous statement by the ICC.

[00:05:49] But then even more so to issue arrest warrants for the leaders of a democratic

[00:05:54] nation on the same day that you issue arrest warrants for a terrorist group is the

[00:06:00] height of absurd.

[00:06:01] And I think it's just the latest in a series of horrible decisions, politicized

[00:06:07] decisions, quite frankly, anti-Semitic decisions that have been taking place since

[00:06:12] October 7th.

[00:06:13] And we see that in the lack of the United Nations, in their failure to call out the

[00:06:19] horrific and systematic sexual abuse and assault of women.

[00:06:23] The fact that they've barely said anything about the hostages that are still being

[00:06:28] held in Gaza, over 100 hostages, including eight American citizens.

[00:06:33] So it's a travesty.

[00:06:35] Our international system is a travesty.

[00:06:37] Just yesterday I saw that there were several leaders of various countries who stood for

[00:06:42] a moment of silence for the butcher of Iran, the president of Iran who was killed this

[00:06:47] week in a helicopter crash.

[00:06:49] So this is not surprising.

[00:06:51] And I think we all need to be incredibly outspoken about this.

[00:06:56] Well, I think one of the what gives the game away is that the arrest warrants for

[00:07:02] Netanyahu, but not all of the like the what's the the war cabinet that he's got.

[00:07:08] It's like one of them is his his arch rival.

[00:07:11] Right. Benny is against, I believe.

[00:07:13] Yeah. No arrest warrant for him.

[00:07:16] So why not?

[00:07:17] Because everybody the whole war cabinet is in complete agreement on the path that they

[00:07:22] are pursuing right now.

[00:07:23] So if you were consistent, why would you not apply that same standard to every single

[00:07:29] one of the members of the war cabinet?

[00:07:31] That's interesting. I hadn't even thought of that.

[00:07:32] But I think you're right.

[00:07:34] And you bring up a really good point, which is that Israel is in a very challenging

[00:07:39] situation that they did not create.

[00:07:41] There was a ceasefire on October 6th, which Hamas broke.

[00:07:44] And everyone in Israel wants to see peace and wants to see an end to this war.

[00:07:49] But I can't think of many other leaders in Israel today that would be doing things that

[00:07:54] differently because unfortunately, this is the situation that has occurred and they're

[00:07:59] fighting against a terrorist organization who does not believe in the rule of law and

[00:08:04] who does not ascribe to international norms.

[00:08:07] So it's incredibly surprising to see this happen.

[00:08:10] I've heard that.

[00:08:12] I'm sorry, you were in Israel on October 7th?

[00:08:15] Correct.

[00:08:16] So how long were you there after?

[00:08:19] I lived there.

[00:08:20] I spent my time there.

[00:08:21] I'm just visiting.

[00:08:22] Oh, OK.

[00:08:23] Gotcha. OK. So you've been there for quite a while since October 7th.

[00:08:28] I have heard and maybe you can speak to this or not just in your own personal experience,

[00:08:32] but I have heard that people that there is a general sense of agreement now.

[00:08:37] There isn't anybody that's sort of like rising.

[00:08:41] There's no mass movement or demonstrations to say, let's not pursue this path that we

[00:08:46] are on. It's like everybody kind of came to this realization on October 7th that like

[00:08:51] this, there's only really one way forward here.

[00:08:52] It's existential and this is it.

[00:08:54] Is that is that fair?

[00:08:55] Is that accurate? Absolutely.

[00:08:57] What's the alternative?

[00:08:58] You have a terrorist organization that's demanding the annihilation of Hamas.

[00:09:02] You have a country that we had a ceasefire with and they continue to reject ceasefires

[00:09:07] because they don't want one.

[00:09:08] They haven't changed their charter.

[00:09:10] They haven't changed their mandate.

[00:09:11] So that's on our southern border.

[00:09:13] And then in the north, we have Hezbollah who fires rockets every single day.

[00:09:17] Many people don't realize that over 100000 Israelis are internally displaced from

[00:09:22] communities in the north and the south.

[00:09:24] That means that basically the land of Israel, our borders have shrunken by default

[00:09:31] because of the situations in the north and the south.

[00:09:33] It's untenable.

[00:09:34] Nobody would ask any other country to live this way.

[00:09:37] It's horrific.

[00:09:38] War is horrific.

[00:09:40] And what's happening to innocent Palestinians and Gazans is horrific.

[00:09:44] And it's completely the fault of Hamas and Iranian proxies and Hezbollah and other

[00:09:49] terrorist groups.

[00:09:49] So I think Israel feels like this is something that we have to do.

[00:09:53] We have no choice.

[00:09:54] And many in Israel feel like we're fighting this war for the entire West and that this

[00:09:59] is something that we are doing on behalf of the entire world.

[00:10:03] Why do you think that is?

[00:10:05] Why?

[00:10:06] Why do you feel?

[00:10:07] Why does Israel feel that way?

[00:10:08] Why do Israelis feel that way?

[00:10:09] Well, it's so clear that the Iranian terror proxies have now wreaked havoc all across

[00:10:15] the world. We can look at all the different spots throughout the Middle East, Lebanon,

[00:10:22] Syria, Iran, Yemen, Gaza, Egypt, everywhere.

[00:10:27] We see the tentacles of Iran in all of these spaces wreaking havoc.

[00:10:32] And not only that, the way that the Iranian leadership is projecting, they're not

[00:10:39] looking to stop just in the Middle East.

[00:10:41] They also have these terror proxies throughout the world.

[00:10:44] So we all want a democratic, strong, equal, safe world.

[00:10:51] And we need to also ensure that that's happening in the Middle East.

[00:10:54] Israel is America's number one ally in the Middle East.

[00:10:58] And I truly believe that the stability of Israel and the region completely affects the

[00:11:04] stability of the United States as well.

[00:11:07] Paula Kwestken is the founder and director of The Collective, which is part of the 49

[00:11:12] percent. That website is the, the number 49 percent dot org slash collective.

[00:11:19] Is there any events or is there a way that people can help if they are interested in

[00:11:25] checking you guys out? Obviously the website, but is there anything going on that you

[00:11:28] want to promote that people should be aware of?

[00:11:31] Yeah. Thank you. We are actually partnering with Sheryl Sandberg and her organization

[00:11:36] that put together this very powerful documentary Screams Before Silence.

[00:11:41] We'll be doing a webinar in the next few weeks.

[00:11:43] It'll be free and open to the public where you can watch the film and also get feedback

[00:11:48] and really incredible insights from women's rights leaders who are speaking out about

[00:11:53] this work. So definitely follow us on Instagram and join us on the website and you'll be

[00:11:58] able to sign up when we, when it happens later this month.

[00:12:01] Paula Kwestken, thanks for your time.

[00:12:03] Stay safe. We appreciate you.

[00:12:05] Thank you. All right. Take care.

[00:12:07] All right. So I mentioned with Paula Kwestken there, the International Criminal Court.

[00:12:14] Oh, hang on a second. I probably should every time I say the International Criminal

[00:12:19] Court, I should do this.

[00:12:26] Anyway, the ICC's chief prosecutor, Kareem Khan.

[00:12:31] Really? The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Courts.

[00:12:37] His name is Khan. He accused Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Defense

[00:12:46] Minister Yoav Golan and three Hamas leaders, Yaya Sinwar,

[00:12:51] Mohamed. See, there's what I just say yesterday.

[00:12:54] The guy, the dude in charge of Hamas is named Yaya Sinwar.

[00:13:02] It's like a fictional name in a book, right?

[00:13:05] In a movie or one of the kids watching today, a Netflix special.

[00:13:09] And then you got the you got this guy from a joke of a international body named Khan.

[00:13:17] Really? It's so the reader, because it's like the author knows there's going to be a lot of

[00:13:22] characters. So they're going to name the character something to always remind you who that

[00:13:26] person is, like their characteristics and their motivations and stuff.

[00:13:29] So the three Hamas leaders also are accused of the war crimes, Yaya Sinwar, as well as

[00:13:39] Mohamed Diaf or Daf, Mo Def.

[00:13:46] Really? And Ismail Haniyeh.

[00:13:55] Haniyeh.

[00:13:56] And Ismail Haniyeh.

[00:13:59] Haniyeh. Haniyeh.

[00:14:02] And yeah, while Netanyahu and Gallant, this guy's name is Gallant.

[00:14:07] I just his last name is Gallant.

[00:14:10] So you got you got Bibi and Gallant and Sinwar and Def.

[00:14:17] OK, so.

[00:14:21] Bibi and Gallant do not face imminent arrest.

[00:14:23] The announcement was a symbolic blow that deepened Israel's isolation over the war in Gaza.

[00:14:30] This according to the Associated Press.

[00:14:32] So they're telling you what to think of this, what to make of this.

[00:14:35] Right. They're not just telling you the news.

[00:14:38] They're providing analysis, if you will.

[00:14:41] They're telling you this is what it means.

[00:14:43] Right. But does it mean that does it actually, quote, deepen Israel's isolation?

[00:14:48] Does it? Or is it another example of why the ICC

[00:14:53] is, in fact, such a joke?

[00:14:57] I'm going with the latter, AP.

[00:15:00] David Hersani writing at TheFederalist.com pointing out that the same day that the Biden

[00:15:04] administration and the European Union offered their condolences over the death of Iran's

[00:15:09] president, Ibrahim Raisi, sorry, Raisi, aka the butcher of Tehran, which we covered yesterday

[00:15:19] is butchery. The chief prosecutor of the the International Criminal Court, Karim Khan,

[00:15:28] sought the arrest of Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli War Council members over imaginary

[00:15:32] war crimes. The first question we need to ask about all of this is Karim Khan and what army?

[00:15:41] Does the International Criminal Court have some sort of security force?

[00:15:46] Are they going to invade Israel?

[00:15:48] Are they going to go capture Benjamin Netanyahu?

[00:15:51] And others, if that's the case, well, then, hey, head on into Gaza and go pick up those

[00:15:59] Hamas holes. What do you think?

[00:16:00] Huh? It's not worth taking a deep dive, he says, into the intricacies of law and war

[00:16:07] because Hamas does not recognize any moral or legal restrictions on warfare.

[00:16:13] Because, to be clear, Hamas, first off, is a designated terrorist organization, and that

[00:16:19] is because why? They ignore international law. They are not wearing uniforms for the most

[00:16:30] obvious one. They don't wear uniforms. The keffiyeh doesn't count. They don't wear uniforms.

[00:16:38] They target innocent civilians, and they use innocent civilians as human shields.

[00:16:45] These are all things that are in violation of international law. So when you are fighting

[00:16:53] an enemy like that, I'm not so sure that it's helpful to draw some sort of moral equivalence

[00:17:03] when you have one party that is, in fact, a professional army that does, in fact, punish

[00:17:09] its own when they violate rules of war, which the Israelis have. Now, maybe not enough to

[00:17:14] your liking. That's fine. But they do do that. Hamas does not recognize any moral or legal

[00:17:25] restrictions on warfare, and this court has no real jurisdiction over anybody anyway.

[00:17:31] Khan says, quote, nobody is above the law, but there is no such thing as international law.

[00:17:39] Now, think about that for a moment. When I read that part, I was like, huh,

[00:17:44] wait a minute. Am I in the Matrix? There is no spoon. There is no spoon.

[00:17:53] The term, David Harsanyi writes, is a contradiction and a fantasy. Law is a system of rules

[00:18:02] regulating citizens, in our case, with the consent of the governed.

[00:18:09] And it is overseen with due process and it is enforced with penalties.

[00:18:16] Americans do not recognize any international government, and so therefore there cannot be

[00:18:23] international law. You do not have our consent. Though we occasionally enter treaties with other

[00:18:33] nations, neither the US nor Israel signed on to the ICC agreement way back in 2002.

[00:18:40] The ultimate authority, and by the way, good move on that one, right? And if I recall correctly,

[00:18:49] the reason why they wanted us to sign on to it and they wanted this thing to get off the ground

[00:18:55] was so they could prosecute Israel and America. Because remember, the war in Afghanistan had

[00:19:00] launched, right? You had the Iraq War coming down the pike. If not, I forget when that one

[00:19:05] exactly started. I thought it was around, well, maybe 05 was the surge. But there were Muslim

[00:19:13] countries, left-wing activists and Democrats in media, but I repeat myself, that were just

[00:19:19] hankering for some war crimes charges against Dick Cheney, Halliburton, George W. Bush,

[00:19:26] Donald Rumsfeld, right? The ultimate authority that governs us is our constitution. We do not

[00:19:35] recognize the ability of illiberal European institutions to punish our citizens and, by the

[00:19:43] way, neither does Israel. None of that is to mention that the ICC is an enemy of the Jewish

[00:19:50] state masquerading as a court. If you need proof, I mentioned earlier that the more liberal,

[00:20:01] I guess they consider him to be, Benny Gantz, like the chief rival, the political rival of Netanyahu,

[00:20:08] he wasn't charged, which is weird because he's on the war cabinet too, the whole war cabinet.

[00:20:12] They're all making these decisions. He wasn't charged. You know who also has never been

[00:20:18] indicted by the International Criminal Court? The Ayatollah. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, never

[00:20:29] indicted. Bashar Assad, gassed his own people, never indicted. Or how about this one? Winnie

[00:20:37] the Pooh, never indicted. Sorry, you may know him as Xi Jinping, president of China, never

[00:20:45] indicted. Vladimir Putin, has he been indicted? Harsanyi goes on to say, notice as well that all

[00:20:54] the indictments only charge members of the right center Likud party who are in the war cabinet.

[00:21:01] Right now Israel has a unity government. Every major political party in Israel is in basic

[00:21:05] agreement that Hamas must be destroyed in Gaza. So the International Criminal Court is using

[00:21:11] Netanyahu as a straw man, using him as a politically expedient way to attack Israel's

[00:21:20] democracy. The entire point of the ICC indictments is to further isolate Israel and reward Hamas.

[00:21:28] Now what did I just read from earlier? The AP story. It's a symbolic blow that deepened

[00:21:35] Israel's isolation. So here is the AP speaking the thing into existence. Media create these

[00:21:44] narratives. This is along the same lines that I always say elections are about what media make

[00:21:50] them. That's what's going on here. They are writing a narrative with the hopes that it

[00:21:55] calcifies quickly and it becomes the truth. Harsanyi identifies it that way as well. He says

[00:22:04] this is the purpose. You create a straw man and that's a politically expedient way to attack

[00:22:12] Israel and to isolate that country and then reward Hamas. And he says the real tell here

[00:22:19] is that the alleged crimes cover actions, get this, this is from the language of the

[00:22:25] indictments quote unquote, in both the territory of Israel and the state of Palestine.

[00:22:33] The territory of Israel and the state of Palestine. Palestine is a fiction,

[00:22:43] not a state, never was a state. Israel is a state but they get called a territory.

[00:22:52] They elevate, they create a state for one entity while downgrade an existing one to just a territory.

[00:23:05] The fix is in. Okay, if you're listening to this podcast, you are obviously paying attention to

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[00:24:02] The editorial over the National Review in response to the indictments, I don't even know

[00:24:10] what they're called, seeking arrest warrants for the Israeli Prime Minister and Defense Minister

[00:24:18] Bibi and Gallant. Oh yeah, and also a couple of the Hamas holeys.

[00:24:27] They say, hey, look at the bright side. This step that the ICC, International Criminal Court,

[00:24:34] has taken, this is a massive step towards its own demise. Like silver lining here, people.

[00:24:42] The team of ICC prosecutor Kareem Khan alleges that Israel has intentionally and systematically

[00:24:50] deprived Palestinians of food, water, electricity, and other necessities during its campaign in Gaza

[00:24:55] and that it is carrying out a quote, widespread and systematic attack on Palestinian civilians.

[00:25:02] These are absurd assertions considering that Israel's consistent efforts to get aid into

[00:25:08] the territory and its painstaking work to minimize civilian harm, a regime that is so

[00:25:14] stringent that it likely exceeds what Washington has done in its own campaigns against ISIS and

[00:25:20] Al Qaeda. By the way, the floating pier of freedom that we just built off the coast of Gaza to get

[00:25:27] all of the humanitarian aid, you may want to sit down for this, but the first shipments got stolen.

[00:25:34] I am as surprised as you. They're saying, get this, that Hamas apparently stole all the aid

[00:25:42] that we just sent in. That Israel is a lot... Think about that. Can you tell me another time

[00:25:50] when a country at war would allow its enemy to be resupplied, its civilian population in enemy

[00:25:58] territory to be resupplied during the war? I know there's going to be war historians that are like,

[00:26:04] whoopie, there was this time in... All right, fine. I don't remember hearing anything about such

[00:26:09] action. Usually it's the whole point of the war is to get your opponent to surrender. Slight problem.

[00:26:18] Slight problem. The International Criminal Court does not have jurisdiction here and does not have

[00:26:24] jurisdiction in Israel either. It doesn't really have any jurisdiction. Israel is not a party to

[00:26:30] the ICC's Rome Statute, as it is called. And so the con prosecutor's petition concerns a fake case

[00:26:38] brought forward on the specious legal theory that, quote, Palestine, a fake country, can join the ICC,

[00:26:45] a fake global court. So yes, it's all just fakery. What they should do, what they should do,

[00:26:54] the White House, is immediately impose sanctions on the prosecutor, on Khan, as well as all senior

[00:27:02] ICC staffers connected with the case and ban them from the United States and freeze any of their

[00:27:07] assets that they may have here. America should care about Khan's case against Israel because an

[00:27:15] unaccountable international bureaucracy is waging a political campaign against one of our allies.

[00:27:21] So yes, we should care. It should not be ignored.

[00:27:25] But it's even more worrying because this could be a dry run for a similar effort

[00:27:31] that illegitimately targets America. So keep that in mind. Right? They call Israel little Satan.

[00:27:39] They call us great Satan, the great Satan. So do you think that they would not use

[00:27:46] a tactic that they're trying to use on Israel? Do you think they wouldn't use it on America?

[00:27:50] Of course they would. Of course they would. That's why they tried to get us to be a part of them

[00:27:55] lo those many years ago, 22 years ago. A quick note here also, teenagers who commit certain

[00:28:02] felonies may soon have their cases start outside of juvenile court. Senate lawmakers are advancing

[00:28:09] a juvenile justice modification bill that means 16 to 18-year-olds accused of certain felonies

[00:28:16] would have their cases begin in superior court before seeing if the juvenile court is more

[00:28:21] appropriate. First, these offenses range from first degree murder to assault with a deadly

[00:28:26] weapon with intent to kill. You know, the little stuff, the little stuff. This is a good idea,

[00:28:31] folks. These are heinous crimes. Start them in the higher courts and then maybe if, you know,

[00:28:36] Warren's kicking it back down to juvie, then so be it. But you don't start with the juvie and then

[00:28:41] let everybody, let all the judges throw them all out and get these guys on ankle monitors so they

[00:28:46] can go murder people again. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for

[00:28:50] listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that

[00:28:54] advertise on the podcast. So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here.

[00:28:59] You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepeatcalendarshow.com. Again,

[00:29:05] thank you so much for listening and don't break anything while I'm gone.