James Lindsay on what the hell is happening with Heritage (10-31-2025--Hour1)

What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive. Content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all of the links, become a patron, go to dpeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for your support. All Right, so I clearly said at the end of the program yesterday, as I do at the end of every single program, I say, do not break anything while I'm gone, and then people break things and I don't know what to do about this anymore. I mean short of like not saying it anymore at the end of the show, and I'm not doing that. So what the hell happened to Heritage the Heritage Foundation. I'm at a loss to understand why some of the people that are leading some of these conservative organizations feel the need to bend the knee to an anti Semite. A guy who fanboys for Hitler and Stalin wants to murder, execute all of the Jews in America once he takes over. I don't understand it, and I'm not being hyperbolic. Those are direct quotes. I have direct quotes from one Nick Flentes, this groper leader, that's his term, he uses it. The people that follow him are quote gropers. They are poop posters, as they call themselves. But well, actually they don't call themselves poop posters. They use another word for poop. He has said. At the high levels of society, and specifically among the Jews, they are evildoers. They are people that worship false gods. They are people that practice magic or ritual or whatever. And more than anything, those people need to be when we take power, they need to be given the death penalty. That's Nick Falentes quote. I'm a big fan of Stalin. Hitler was cool. Hitler was awesome. Direct quotes. Or how about women are coy They want me to rape them, they want me to beat the bleep out of them? End quote. Or how about Charlie Kirk. Charlie is a female dog. Word begins with a be. Charlie is a bee. He's a fake patriot, anti Christian, and anti white. Let's focus all of our firepower on Charlie Kirk. He also talked about taking over Turning Point USA with his groypers that he has bleeped Turning Point Usa Charlie's baby. He bleeped Charlie's baby, That's what he kept saying. And it's already done. The wheels are in motion. They're going to take it over. I said this at the News and Bruise the other night because I could see this building. I had seen that Tucker Carlson, who I used to watch and I used to read his stuff. I used to have a different opinion of him than I do now. And I cannot explain, nor will I attempt to explain, whatever has happened to him that has become discernible to me. Maybe he has. Hidden his prior held beliefs, maybe these are new beliefs. Maybe he doesn't know what he's doing. Maybe he does know what he's doing. Maybe he's motivated by something, by audience, by money, by conviction. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. It doesn't matter to me. What matters to me as an observer and as an American, I look at what he is, what the results are of what he's doing, and what the results are is a splintering of the Republican coalition that Donald Trump built, that Charlie Kirk was building this quote big tent. As Ben Sjapiro has said, you know, when you build a big tent, you end up with a lot of clowns. And the thing that we have been demanding me specifically, I'll just speak for myself. The thing that I have been demanding of the left, specifically Democrat leaders is to weed out their own is to ostracize the people inside of your tent, in your movement that call for violence, that celebrate violence, that engage in violence. Right when Charlie Kirk was assassinated, a lot of people on the right started identifying, you know, rhetoric from Democrat politicians and saying, hey, they're you know, they're egging this stuff on. Well, I am about a consistent application of standards. So my standard is that when people on quote your side are behaving in a terrible way, then you need to say you're behaving in a terrible way. You need to police your own side lest you be smeared along with them. And if you want an example of this, look at. The Democrat Party. Just look at them. I mean, they're they're putting Zoron Mamdani into the mayorship of New York City. Right, They've got a candidate who advocated the murder of a Republican Speaker of the House in Virginia and his two young children who he wanted to die in their mother's arms. That's who they're putting up. And if you don't want to be smeared with that kind of association, you are free, by the way, to have any association you would like. We have freedom of association in America. You are free to associate with the most vile people you choose, absolutely, But then I'm going to make some judgments about you. Right when Abigail Spanberger cannot seem to bring herself to say that Jay Jones needs to drop out of the race because of his vile comments about wanting to murder people and kids, well then I'm going to associate her with him. I've been consistent on this. I haven't changed. And so when you come to me now, Heritage Foundation, I've had people from Heritage on my shows for twenty years. Not anymore. Not anymore, Because you're pulling a span Burger, is what you're doing. You're doing the very same thing you are refusing to police your own You're not saying and by the way, you will never hear me say deplatform somebody, cancel somebody. I'm not calling for that. I'm simply saying, if you want to welcome the groypers, which is like single digit percentages, if you want to welcome them into your tent, and you want to say that that's your side, that they're on your side, then I'm not. I just want to be clear, like that's not my side. I will not help you at all if you are helping them, because their leader has said what I just gave you these quotes he said, and that's just that's just the stuff that like I could find in the land twenty four hours and I didn't even have to look very hard. Hell, he said one of them in the interview with Tucker Carlson and got zero pushback. And that's the thing too. I saw Tucker Carlson's interview with Ted Cruz. We played soundbites of it on this show. It was heated. Tucker was just savaging him over Israel. That's what all this comes to. It comes down to. It's all about Israel. And I'm sure there's some geopolitical and profound reasons why it happens to be Israel and only Israel. That's it, I'm sure, because I don't want to accuse people of being anti Semites just because they're anti Zionists or anti Israel, or I'm just criticizing the policy of a foreign country, or I'm just criticizing our support of that foreign country. Right, so I'm not equating the two. I'm giving trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. But I do note it is almost exclusively about Israel. That's the unifying issue for so many of these young people, which, by the way, comic Dave Smith, big opponent of Israel, goes on all of the conservative podcasts and stuff and makes the case about why Israel is so terrible, committing genocide and everything else. He said, We've already won. It's what he told Peters Morgan and Seth Dillon from the Babylon b We've already won the younger generation. We already won them over. This is what's happening to the MAGA movement. I said this at the News and Brus event. There is a fight right now for who controls MAGA. 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That's what your photos and videos are. They are your life told through the eyes of everyone around you and all who came before you, and they will tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video dot com. From the text line, Jody said, love the show. I just wasn't sure what Tucker Carlson said. I'm not focusing on anything that Carlson said. Carlson is too well, some may say slippery, I would say skilled. He is very skilled at what he does and so he rarely ever says things that are that you could nail him down on. Although he did say he loathes Christian Zionists. He called them heretics and said he hates them more than anybody else, anyone else, and they rattled off the whole bunch of people that he says, you know, he knows, like Carl Rove and whatever. He listed all of these neo KHN Republicans from you know, twenty years ago. But my beef with Carlson is that he is platforming people. And I know of which I speak here because of what I speak, because I too platform people. Anybody that I allow on the show, I am platforming them. Okay, So it's not it's not that I disagree with people being platformed, but I then can make a judgment about who you choose to platform and then how you engage with the people you bring in. And after the News, I'll be talking with James Lindsay again, and he's been predicting this very thing for years, and you know, the running joke is that he's got a James Lindsay was right jar and you just throw money into it every time because he said this was coming. This is a crackup of the mega movement, and you've got people that are vying for control of it. Why because all populist movements that are led by a figurehead, they all splinter when the figurehead dies or gets imprisoned or retires or whatever. And that's maga. Donald Trump is maga. Right without him, there was no there could be no maga. And so Donald Trump is looking at you know, three and a half years, three years left on his term, and people are jockeying for position for that base. They want a piece of that pie. They want to be a movement leader inside of that. That's the best, uh, that's my best interpretation. That's giving people the benefit of the doubt that it's a play for power. There are some other explanations that are possible, but that would be I would be ascribing motive to them. There's their theories out there, and again, there are many different people that are jockeying for a slice of that pie, and some of the theories are, you know, they're captured by their audience. For example, it's just a money thing, so in order to keep their engagement going on social media, on their podcast, in order to keep the download numbers up. Again, being in this line of work for as long as I've been in this line of work, I know of what I speak here. People become captured by their audience, and they say things in order to keep their audience engaged with them and keep them sticky, as we say, and they don't want to cross their audience. I know firsthand about this. So that's part of it. That could be an explanation for why some people inside you know, conservative podcast to stand or whatever the you know podcast world influenzer types like that could be why they're doing it. There's also a component, by the way that attaches to this, which is the the bot farms, the fake accounts that boost the algorithms in order to create a false sense of popularity among positions and things that people are saying. Like if I if I send out a tweet that says something terrible and it gets a million follows or a billion likes or something, now I'm making money on x right, they're paying me because I've got all this engagement, and then I say something that's not terrible and I get nothing. So if I am trying. To feed the family, keep a roof over the head, I realize very quickly where my incentives lie there, and that's to keep saying the terrible stuff because that keeps the engagement. Well, what if it's not real engagement? And I'm not saying anybody here, I'm not naming any names because I don't know. I don't know. I will tell you if I knew, but I don't know who is doing it for these reasons. But this is a thing. And some people are undoubtedly working as engagement farmers, okay, And there is undoubtedly. I mean, they just busted one up in New York, a Chinese bot farm. It is happening, Okay. We are in a in a battle space that is social media. We have foreign actors that are engaging in psychological warfare for the minds of the American public. I believe it is to weaken us, to tear us down from the inside, to undercut the pillars of Western civilization so we are more easily conquered. This is not a new strategy goes all the way back to Sun sou part of war, I mean, minus the Facebook and all, but it's the same, it's these are the same principles. There is also there, you know, there are also people that are in it just because they just really hate Jews. That's part of it as well, some of these the gropers, you know. But this is where we get into sort of this woke right category as well, which is that you've got the same sort of woke mind virus, as Elon Musk called it. It's capturing people on the right as well, just as it did on the left, and you start creating this bubble of people that eventually detaches from the quote mainstream. And once you're in that bubble that has detached, there's no coming back from that. There's no coming back. And this is also of the This is also part of a warfare tactic in that if you can have people remove themselves from the battlefield, now you never have. To deal with them again, and you weaken your opponents. And so the woke right has adopted the tactics of the woke left, using identity politics, this awakening to critical consciousness, viewing things through the lens of oppressed and oppressor, except they just swap out different identities for oppressor and oppressed, that's all. And in their worldview they are the oppressed, just like every wokester is right. Every wokester identifies themselves as oppressed in some way. They view an enemy that oppresses them, and then they target that enemy as the wellspring of all of their ills. That's a problem. That's a problem. Also, there is envy involved in Marxism, woke ism. That's where this all comes from. There's envy, and so I'm kind of I laugh a little bit when I hear a lot of people on the woke right talk about how the Jews are in control of everything, but they want to be in control of everything. So there's some envy going on there, which of course is the root of Marxism, which is woke. So here's a great idea. 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Choose from thirteen cabins, six cottages, two villas, and a great lodge with eleven king sized bedrooms. Cabins of Ashville has the ideal spot for you for any occasion, and they have pet friendly accommodations. Call or text eight two eight, three six seven seventy sixty eight or check out all there is to offer at Cabins of Aashville dot com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Want to welcome back to the program James Lindsay. He is the purveyor maybe of New Discourses dot com. That's his website, New Discourses. Tommy's also the author of several books, including Race, Marxism, and Cynical Theories. James, how are you today, sir? Hey, I'm great. Thanks great. I've seen you on Twitter today. Are you sure you're great today? I am? Yes. Fighting is a joyful activity. So okay, explain to me what the hell is happening right now. I think what we're actually witnessing is a mask off moment for something that's been developing in conservative circles for several years. I've given it the name controversially, the woke Right. They call themselves a dissident right or a new Right. But there's some movement that's embedded itself within MAGA that's been kind of a fellow traveler. I would say that the right terminology is that it is a radical splinter group that has been trying to take MAGA into radicalism, into anti semitism and racism and all of the things the left has accused us of. And they decided this past week, following Tucker Carlson interviewing the very radical fringe character Nick Flentes, they decided to take their mask off and show the world that they're part of this movement, an unwelcome part of this movement. And then Kevin Roberts, the president of the Heritage Foundation, decided to stand with his longtime friend Tucker Carlson rather than to draw a clear line, and everybody's freaking out. So to your point, I came across this guy named Scott Wiener. He's a Democrat out of California. He's a senator there, and he says the mainstreaming of Nazi and anti Semitic rhetoric on the right is now complete. And so he's a Democrat. He's this guy. He's awful out there, some of the stuff that he's proposed in the past and gotten through in the legislature. So this is sort of playing into the left's narrative, right, It's like it's giving them the loaded gun. Yeah. Absolutely, Scott Wiener has been the probably most effective state senator in California at passing the radical sexual agenda in that state, which has been a model for the radical sexual agendas across the United States, including there in North Carolina that you guys have had to deal with. So Scott Wiener is a very savvy Democratic political operator. He's very strong in the LGBTQ activist movement, and he's a very dangerous character in American politics. And he's seizing upon this opportunity that's been handed to them on a silver platter to accuse now quite credibly Republicans of being in line with Nazis. As you can find not tens, not just hundreds, but thousands of videos of Nick Fuentes, this character that Tucker Carlson interviewed praising Hitler, praising the Nazis and celebrating them, saying that Hitler was effing cool, for example, in a very famous clip, among a lot of other things. So, yes, what this splinter movement is doing, in my opinion, and has always been doing, is handing the ammunition back to the Democrats, back to the left to make sure that Republicans don't win another election for twenty years. And that moment where we have to make this decision whether we say we're with that and we're going to take our chances with all that evil, or we're going to say we're not with that and we're going to draw a clear line. That moment has arrived. So how is it because I've watched you for years. I've read your stuff for years. How were you able to predict this this moment? Well, I tell people this a lot. I predicted an awful lot of things that the left was going to do, that the Democrats were going to do over the last five to ten years, and I predicted that this was coming. And I tell people the same story again and again. I read what people say and I believe them. So when they tell me, as Kevin Roberts has said for years at Heritage that he is a post liberal, I say, well, what does that word mean? And I go look up the word post liberal and I see that it means something like wanting to break away from the American constitutional order. And when he says that publicly in front of an audience, I assume he knows what it means and that he means it. So then I start looking at the implications of such a belief set. And it's not that difficult to start making predictions. The only thing that's hard to predict is the timing. What will happen is usually pretty easy to figure out, when in the specifically how it will happen can be more difficult. I would not have guessed that Tucker Carlson was going to interview Nick flint Is and then that the Heritage Foundation's president would take a stand to defend this. Yeah, what is the danger? You called this radical splinter? So like, obviously there's electoral dangers, right if you, you know, cozy up to neo Nazis and anti Semites and Stalin fanboys. Obviously there might very well be elector implications for that. People don't want to vote for your candidates. But what of the the at the sort of the personal, the individual level, do you think the danger is for people? Well, I mean, these people represent a very radical and dangerous movement. Whether or not they will turn to something like political violence is actually an open question. They usually engage in their political violence through the means of online attacks. They don't show up with, you know, weapons or guns or something like that. But they do actually have a strong tendency to gather people's personal private information and publish that their addresses, their phone numbers, their families addresses, and to engage in pretty relentless harassment campaigns. I've been subject to those for standing up to this. Many other people have as well. That can get dangerous. They can progress to calling in the SWAT team under false pretenses, which will show up with guns at your house, and there have been incidents where that's led to the person at the home dying. So they are a danger movement in that regard. Whether they will escalate further, it's hard to say, but the primary danger at the moment is electoral. We can guarantee that Republicans are not going to win another major election for twenty years. If this movement becomes characteristic COMEGA or the Conservative movement. How much of that is do you think tied to the fact that, you know, Trump is term limited. He built the MAGA movement, He's got this broad coalition, and now everybody kind of sees, okay, well he's going to be done in three years, so let's take our shot. I think there's some element of that. I think that actually it's more important for them to undermine Trump in his second term. A lot of people have the strong mistake that these people are pro Trump and pro America. Big Point has openly and strongly campaigned against Trump in the last election. For example, very strongly. It came out, you know, with the lead text messages a couple of years ago that Tucker Carlson hates Trump. He's cozied up to him since because of all of the usual reasons you might suspect, but there'd be a big mistake to think that these people are there to help Trump achieve his agenda. The more we're fighting with each other, the more we're tying ourselves or being tied to these awful radical things like jew hatred and anti semitism and blaming Israel for everything that's ever happened, and racism and sexism and homophobia and the alays in the real, genuine sense, in the trumped up sense of the left. The more that we're tied to all that, less Trump is going to be able to accomplish. The more there will be division, like we saw when he had decided to do the strike against Iran's nuclear sites. There's going to be division trying to undercut him at every turn, to create chaos where he isn't able to implement his agenda. And then when we watch the midterms go the wrong way, Trump becomes neutered. So Trump's agenda to stop the left and to stop the radical Democrats gets thrown in the toilet by this movement undermining him day in and day out, and so everything we're trying to save in America gets thrown away. They're successful. Well, and even Fiuentes himself after the twenty twenty four or I guess yeah, well twenty twenty loss. He's when Trump lost. He said we did it, and he has now said even JD. Vance has to pander to his groy him and his groper crew. So how do people that are on the right to varying degrees, how do we combat this rise of this radical splinter group, this gropersm if you want. To call it that, Well, it's exactly the same as dealing with the left. So everything you wish you would have done to deal with the left five years ago that people were afraid and confused and wouldn't do, is what we have to do. So, like when they show up at one of these conservative events like they did, the people that end up on the stage need to make very clear statements that break from their the framing that the gropers are giving. So we see JD. Vans, we see a crama farming, We see Glinn Beck getting put their feet to fire by these radicals showing up. This is exactly the same as when a BLM activist or an ANTIFA activist or a queer theory activist show up and they ask an impertinent question to try to catch the person flat footed. So what you do is you reject their framing. You say, this isn't who we are, this isn't what we're going to do, and we're not interested in hearing this. And they're going to cry censorship and all of this other stuff. And just like when the left cry is racist, you don't care. You say, no, we know who we are, we stand in our principles, and we know right from wrong, and don't entertain it. It's absolutely crucial that we stop thinking these people are offering something serious for conservatives to think about, and start treating them as though they're trying to disrupt and subvert our movement, which is exactly what they're doing. Tell them what Charlie Kirk said when he was confronted with these people Surrey. He said, you're a white supremacist or a white identitarian. You're not part of our movement. You don't represent conservatism. This is not what we're doing. The crowd erupted the video. Who goes viral every other week? You stand up to them. That's what you do, James Lindsay. You could read his work at New Discord versus dot com. He's also the author of Race, Marxism and Cynical Theories as well. Always appreciate your time, James. Thanks, keep up the good work. Thank you, all right, take care. That's James Lindsey. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app and it's a website and it combines news from around the world in one place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check dot Ground dot News slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. Messages on the text line from Kathy, we need to make sure we go out on X You'll always be Twitter to me and any other media and put the information out Regarding the president of Heritage Foundation. In the interview with. Tucker Carlson, I will definitely put out that I will never support them and push anyone else who is supporting them to know what they are getting themselves into. Okay, this is Eddie. We were better off as hunter gatherers. Well, we did not live as long. I think the guy talking right now is full of crap. The majority of Republicans and Democrats are not far right or left. They are moderate. Nick Fluentes represents very few people. He's got one of the biggest podcast platforms in America. By the way, Nick Fuentes does, I don't know if that's real people that are elevating those numbers. I have no idea. He says, this guy is making it sound like the far right is a huge population. I don't think he did that at all. He called it a radical splinter off of MAGA, and he made very clear that they are not actually on the right, They're not right wingers. They have glombed onto conservatism. I've been saying this for twenty five years. I saw it when George W. Bush was president and Republicans won power, and all of a sudden there were all these people that had glombed onto conservatism under sort of a neo con banner. They were not conservatives. They were not for limited government, right, they were not for individual liberty, due process, rule of law. They weren't saying those things. They didn't believe that stuff. They wanted the power. Psychopaths are attracted to the power source. And by the way, whether or not this guy Fwentes represents very few people or not, when the Heritage Foundation comes out and defends it, that's broken through. Now you've now broken through that very comfortable place where you could say he doesn't represent a large following, he doesn't represent us. He's over there, he's not on the right or whatever. When the president of the Heritage Foundation comes out and I've got his statement. I haven't even played it yet. That's broken through. Now now you have to address it. You will be made to care. This is what the woke does. You're going about living your life, you don't care about a particular issue, and all of a sudden, now you're being forced to care about something. We are now being forced to care about this thing. I've been watching this for a while. As I said, I mentioned it at the News and Brus event that this rift is coming. I did not expect it to come right now, two days after the event, but I knew that this thing was. It was simmering. And then Eddie goes on to say Nick Fouentes is a mo for the far right to try to show that Republicans are anti Semites. Yes, that's what James Lindsay was saying. You're exactly right. That's the point is to besmirch basically everybody on the right, as we just heard from Scott Wiener's comment that this is who they are, This is who Republicans are. Everybody is now going to be tagged as on the same side as Nick Fuentes. And if you don't want to be tagged as being on his side, then you have to stand up and say I'm not on his side. I'm doing that. I'm saying, if, if, if, whatever happens with Maga, whatever the Republican Party is doing, whatever the right is about, if it, if it includes Fuentes and his crowd, that's not my side. And had the Democrats done that with their radicals, they would probably be in a much better position right now. They wouldn't be at record low approval numbers. That's what I'm trying to convey to you. If you don't think he represents a large portion of the electorate, and you think we don't need him to win, then it shouldn't be any problem to excise that and say you have no place in conservatism because the ideology and the views you are expressing are terrible, They're vile. I don't have a problem saying that. Some people do. I am not one of them. He says, the far left needs for the Republicans to be anti Maga, right, so they're going to drive a wedge. They've been trying to drive a wedge. I said it with the with the Iran strike too. They are trying to drive a wedge in Maga anyway they can. The left is and they will exploit. What do you think the Epstein Files is about. Why is the left all of a sudden caring about the Epstein Files, Well because they see it as a wedge to splinter apart Mega. Okay, that's about the shutdown. Oh here's a troll. Same folks who are shocked and alarmed about heritage routinely laugh at Bill Crystal for having TDS. Well, Bill Crystal came out and he's in support of Mom Donnie. Okay, x GOP have been warning about this predictable threat since twenty fifteen. Liberalism only matters to y'all now that it's an elect to reliability. Liberalism only matters to y'all. Now that I don't think that's correct at all. And Frank says, you banned me from your show about a year ago from some trumped up accusation, So I am now going to text into your show. You are free to text in, Frank, but I can also block you, so just keep. That in mind too. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.