Foreign doctors, homeownership, and college costs (08-26-2025--Hour1)

What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to dpeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet, And again, thank you so much for your support. It is Tuesday, It's twelve noon, and that means we chat with our pal Andrew Dunn. He is the publisher of long Leaf Politics longleafpol dot com and a contributing columnist to The Charlotte Observer. Andrew, how are you doing, sir? Oh, I'm doing all right. Thanks for having me on the show. Oh sure, we'd love to chat about the Twitter addie dust up over doctors. I saw this percolating over I guess it was over the weekend. I first started seeing this stuff in the feeds, and you wrote about this a couple of days ago, and I got to be honest, like, I went through the I watched the video that the lawmaker put out that you reference in the piece and his explanation seemed reasonable, and then I went and read the bill and it seemed like it's not doing the thing that everybody is accusing the bill of doing. So give people an idea. First off, what is this doctor bill that has now prompted outrage online? Yeah, I'll try to give you the short rundown. I mean, basically, six eight weeks ago, the General Assembly passed a law unanimously, you know, not a single vote against it aimed at trying to get more doctors to North Carolina, particularly in rural areas. And one of the ways is through interstate compacts. Basically, of your licensed doctor in another state, it's easier now to refer you to practice inrth Carolina. Now, the other one, you know that that's fairly innocuous, and nobody's really talked about that. No, And it seems like that should have been done a long time ago, Like that's just like that would have been a fix that should have been done decades ago. But anyway, yeah, yeah, you would, you would think so. But you know, either way, it's done now. Good second way is to create a slightly easier pathway for doctors who went to medical school and have practiced in other countries to come to the United States and specifically North Carolina to practice. I mean, there's always been some ways for you know, doctors to immigrate to the United States and begin to practice. Eventually, this shortened the timeframe a little bit in certain circumstances, and the reaction to this has just been over the top in my view. Some of the folks online will have you believe that, you know, North Carolina is just going to go overseas and you know, scoop up random people who got a paper degree from a diploma mill and sit them right in hospitals. But you know, how I read the bill, how the law actually reads, does not create that at all. Yeah, I mean some of the stipulations here that the International Pathway. In order to qualify, a doctor has to have a full time job offer in a North Carolina hospital or clinic with an on site North Carolina licensed supervising physician. They have to be in good standing with a foreign medical license. They have to have one hundred and thirty weeks of recognized medical education from a designated school, have either two years of accredited post grad training or ten years of active practice, prove clinical competency through recognized exams and pass background checks, be proficient in English, and have legal work authorization like that seems like that seems pretty solid to me. Like, yeah, if we want to get some doctor from Britain or France or somewhere, like yeah, like we should be able to get somebody as long as they meet this criteria. And this is a like this is a short term fix, because you mentioned this in the in your piece at the Observer that like, yes, we can do things to increase the ranks of the doctors for the long term, but that doesn't solve the problem of a short staffed clinic right now. That's exactly right. And you know doctor Grant Campbell, who's in the General Assembly and has been one of the leading voices on this bill. You know, he's also working on things like getting more slots in medical schools, getting more residency slots and all. That's great, And honestly, I wish we had been working on this years ago, but I'm glad we're doing it now. But anyway, even if all that were to go into effect immediately, it doesn't solve the short term problem. Yeah, because it takes a while for a doctor to become a doctor. Rightly, you can. Increase the slots in the medical schools, but they still have to go through the medical school, do the residency. They got to go through all of that year's long process before they can ever get a job at a clinic. So this seems like a reasonable way to get people who are doctors in other countries and meet all of the other criteria and get screened that they then would be able to practice in the short term. It just makes sense. And you actually talked with Grant Campbell, who's from Caberis County, and I thought this was pretty sad, he says. I wish I had never even touched it at this point because of all of the abuse that he has been subjected to. And I've seen that. I wasn't aware until I read your piece that this thing was approved unanimously. So what is every single member of the legislature rhino or something or I guess they're accusing Campbell of whying to everybody about it. Yeah, I mean that's what they're saying. And I don't want to overstate how I don't think the opposition has been as broad as it might seem online. I'm sure you know you're aware of this. You know, when the bots get involved, it can quickly start to feel overwhelming, when really it's only you know, one to two or three people who are really driving all the activity. But you know, to me, the bigger issue isn't isn't about this one particular bill, And I don't want to be, you know, the public face of this bill. I'm not a doctor like I'm sure there are probably ways to improve it. I'm not smart enough to say what those are, but I'm sure the General Assembly will work on that. To me, the bigger issue is around the immigration issue in general. You know, I think over the past year, America has done the right thing in really focusing on curbing illegal immigration. But I worry that as a country we're starting to take things a little bit too far and not recognizing that. You know, there used to be a consensus that immigration in general is a good thing and that we want the United States to be a magnet for the best and brightest from around the world, and I worry that we're losing that and this could be a symptom of that. Yeah, it's possible. I've been saying that too, and I hear from you know, listeners and emailers and you know. People online too. There definitely has been that kind of a backlash to say, you know, set it to zero, no more, We're not taking anybody else in. And my view has always been. With you just articulated, which is that I want the best and the brightest on the planet to come here because they they love the idea of being able to do what they want under our ordered liberty, and. They can take advantage of that. And then we get we get to yield the fruits of their labor as well, we get the path, we get the R and D, we get those productive members of society. So, yeah, I do wonder, Yeah, I do share that concern of yours. But also I understand why people are like, don't take anybody else in, because you know, housing is unaffordable. You know, AI is going to put everybody out of work, and so there are these other pressures that are also part of this conversation. And this gets to another piece that you write about. This is the graph that went viral which shows that the share of thirty year olds in the US who are both married and homeowners has declined. A majority of young people fell into that category. Half a century ago, but today it's only like ten percent being thirty and married and having a home, and that is that is not a good trend. That is not sustainable, right. That's exactly right. Yeah, I mean fifty years in the nineteen seventies, you know, having checked all those boxes was by far the most common scenario for a thirty year old, and now it's one of the least common. And you know, there's so many reasons why this is happening, you know, both cultural and economic, you know, and it's only going to get worse as we go For as we go forward, I mean we're already seeing entry level white collar hiring go way down, you know, as AI gets more prevalent in society. So I honestly think that this chart's only going to get worse, hopefully before it gets better. But I think it'll take a really sustained effort at the state level to try to push back on this. Well, and this is the thing too, if you you know, if you are married, it's more likely that you're going to be able to afford a home than if you're single. I don't know where this idea came from that Hey, you know what, I could just stay single, and I'll be able to go out and buy my own home home and it'll be the home that I'm kind of accustomed to living in, eighteen to eighteen hundred square feet, you know, three bed, two and a half bath to car garage, and it's like, I don't know if that's realistic. And honestly, it'll be easier. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's easier if you have a partner who's also bringing in some revenue to the equation, it seems like. But so I don't know how you It seems like you got to break that the being single later in life trend before you can get to the homeowning trend. Maybe yeah, I mean it's kind of a chicken or the egg problem, right, and that I think is more on the cultural side. Is you're absolutely right. I mean, people don't necessarily start thinking about buying a house until they are married. But then on the flip side, you know, people feel like they can't get married until they're financially stable and able to afford a home. So for whatever reason, that's the deal that our society has decided we're going to sign up for, and it just leads to the situation. Where in now, well, yeah, and then you layer in the burdensome debt from college that you know, kids are graduating with, you know, one hundred hundred and fifty two hundred thousand dollars in debt, and you know, they've got a degree in a career track that is probably going to at best yield them a salary of sixty or seventy thousand dollars a year after fifteen to twenty years of experience. And it's just not it's not a good business model for them. But that's also yeah, I mean that was also part. Of the. Lie that was sold to these generations that go to college, get your degree, and you'll be able to get a really good job, and that is not the case any longer because of the cost of college education. I think that I think if we got it that you know, like and my idea on this is to simply make the colleges or make the loans rather chargeable in bankruptcy and let the let these kids declare bankruptcy and then the colleges don't get their loans, they don't get their money back, you know. And if I think if you make the colleges have to do the loans and you make them dischargeable, then I think they make better loans and I think they drive down the cost of their tuition. Yeah. I think that's a great point, and that could certainly be part of it. But the other side, on the flip side, if you just make uh, you know, have these loans not have the federal guarantees and you know where banks or lenders actually do have to underwrite as almost like a business plan, like all right, we'll give you this money for this degree, but how are you going to pay it back? That just doesn't factor into the equation at all. No, it's a great point. Yeah, they would not be writing loans for college degrees that had no viable economic future. Uh you know, basket weaving one oh one, Like, no, you're not going to have a job that you're going to be able to pay us back on this. So yeah, I think that's a I think that's a big part of it too. Hey, Andrew, it's always a pleasure to chat with you. Thanks for your time. As always, you can read Andrew's work at his substack newsletter Longleaf. Is it substack? Actually? Is it a substack? Okay, substack, It's long Leave Politics, and you can also read them at Charlotte Observer as well. We'll talk with you next week, Andrew, Thank you, sir, all right, thank you, take care. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and it's a website and it combines news from around the world in one place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself check dot ground, dot news, slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground news as they make the media landscape more transparent. Let me jump over and chat with George. Hello, George, Hey, Pete, Hey, Hey, listen. I wanted to weigh in on this college debt stuff. I make my living as a college admissions and financial aid coach private and the private market, that is, people hire me to work with their high school kids. I've got these comments to make. First of all, the colleges used to be responsible for the loans back in the days of the Stafford loans. They are horrible at debt collecting. They're horrible. That's why the government took an O. And the federal government does keep a default rate score for every university in college that participates in the federal student loan program, and that does affect their eligibility to borrow to access the government money. But the downside is the colleges get all their money up front, no matter what happens to the student. And that's what's you know, each semester, that's where problem goes. Oh I bet yeah. A quick question. You say they keep track of the default rates, but how do they default if you can't discharge in bankruptcy. Well, the default rate is when they so the college is I'm sorry, these it gets a little, it gets a little convoluted. Big surprise. Well it's it's government, so of course it does. Yes. So here's what happens. You apply for federal student loans. They give you the loans. When you separate from the program, either because you leave college or you graduate six months later, repayment begins obligated. You can get deferments, you know, it's like oh, I don't have a job, or I got sick, or I got laid off, or I had a baby, and they'll give you deferments. But at a certain point they, the lending the servers, the lending service companies, will declare you to be in default. So, in other words, you have this kind of like when you go to the hospital, you can't pay the medical bill. Then the hospital eventually sent gives it out to a debt collector. Right, So that's what happens with these college loans, and those default rates are reported annually by every college and university to the Federal Student Office, and there I don't know the exact number or percentage they are allowed a certain percentage of default and remain in good standing. But if they get above that percentage, they're put on warning and then on probation, and then they can actually be disqualified from further participation in the federal student aid program, which means those colleges are out of business. Because are you aware of any colleges that have actually hit that? Yeah, they're you know, I can't call them off hand, but yeah, there are a few, and sadly, the few that I'm aware of or are historically black colleges and university. Yeah, and that is that is one of the tragedies of this student loan business that the government gotten in has gotten into. But here's one other point that people don't realize. An eighteen year old high school graduate on his or her own signature can participate in the direct student loan program, whereas the money is dispersed to the college in the name of that student and the student's signature unsecured loan, but it taps out at twenty seven thousand dollars. Beyond that, they have to have a co signer or they have to go into the commercial loan market and find some shady lender, some exorbitant interest rate, who will give them an unsecured personal loan for twenty or thirty thousand dollars? And one other. Comment, Pete, you know you mentioned one two hundred thousand dollars in debt. There are those outliers. But if you go to the National Center for Education Statistics, you will find that the average undergraduate loan is I think it's like thirty indebtedness. It's like thirty six thirty seven thousand dollars total. That's the average total. You know, yeah, that's total for the four year degree. If they got their four year degree. Rights just the total on the loan. And so one of the things that you know, I tell I teach when I have the opportunity to speak to groups, I say, look a a college partial college education with debt is much worse than no college education at all, with no If you're not going to complete your bachelor's degree, just go into the job market with a high school diploma. Now, some good advice, George, I do have to run. I do appreciate the information. Thank you. Sare you buddy? All right? Thank you? Take care. Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. Just a quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together for a big old reunion, Cabins of Asheville has the ideal spot for you where you can reconnect with your loved ones and the things that truly matter. 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I don't think a university receives their share of student loan default responsibility. I think the universities are well compensated. We are the ones left holding the bag. Yeah, this is sort of speaks to this concept over production of the elites, or as I. Call them, the tholites. They're not actually elites, They just you know, had family members that did something a couple generations ago and they live off of the residual income and trust funds and stuff. But there there is something to that, this overproduction in certain fields and like what do you do with this degree? And it's not just. In these you know, the weird social sciences types of degree tracts. You know, I say basket weaving or you know, theoretical dance or something like that, Like what do you actually do with that degree? But there are. Also some you know, math classes for example, there you know what do you do with the math degree. Usually you end up teaching right you go into the university, and that's. Not a knock. I'm not saying that that's bad, but there are only so many of those slots right to get into and it becomes very competitive, and so if you over produce people from those colleges with these degrees, they will not be able to work in the field that they've studied. Right. This is from anonymous. Do parents not pay for their kids college education anymore? I am fifty six and grew up in a middle class family. My parents paid me and my brother to attend public university. All my friends' parents did the same, as far as I knew. I consider myself middle class, and I did the same for my two kids. Both my kids tell me this is now the exception. I actually. We did something on this a couple months ago, I don't know, seven, eight months ago, something like that, and the advice from some financial guy. I forget the details of the story. I apologize for that, but he said basically, as a parent, if you're looking to help your kid, you would probably be better off giving them money towards their first home purchase versus the degrees. I like. I was one of four and my parents could not afford all four kids to go to college. It was basically stay. At home mom. She did a little part time work here and there. But you know, Dad made a decent salary, but you know, he didn't qualify back in those days for any of the student loans. So my brother went to the Citadel and that was expensive for an out of state student. And then a couple of years later, I go to college and I'm at Winthrop and it was at that time the cheapest South Carolina State school. By the time I left, it was the most expensive. They just kept jacking up the tuition and I had to take out loans, as did both of my younger sisters, So we all three out of the four of us had loans to repay. So that was not the norm for us, and that was back in the in the mid nineties. I think they should This is from Mark. I think they should make it affordable for one person to own a house. Let the married couple choose if they want to stay at home to take care of the children, because we need to do a better job with our children. I think that will make a better world in the future. It's all about the kids. And that's a very good point as well. I remember, and this was years ago, so I don't know if the economics still work. But if you have a dual income household, which now is basically required, I guess, but you know, twenty years ago, like eighty percent of the second income earner, so not the breadwinner, not the one who makes the most, but the one who makes the second most, like eighty percent of their income goes to daycare childcare. So like if you just cut your spending by twenty percent, then you would be able to have a parent. Stay at home. That was the idea being advanced at that time. Again, I don't know if the economics still work on that, but yeah, the answer, in my view, the answer to more housing, more affordable housing, is first off, get rid of all the people in the country that aren't supposed to be that are living in the houses. You're going to free up a lot of inventory, number one. But also number two, you got to allow more building of starter homes, you know, and that's difficult to do in urban centers. It's difficult to do when you've got land costs that are high because there's not enough buildable land left. So yeah, the starter homes are usually located farther away from the urban core. And that's where you start talking about mass transit options and trains and such to move people from lower land cost areas into the well paid, salaried areas. Right, that's the idea. That's what the proponents of mass transit argue for. That if you because. Otherwise you're trading large chunks of your life in a commute that can sometimes run like two to three hours a day. And what is your life worth to you? Because that's what we're talking about. That's what time is. You're sitting in a car for two hours, three hours going back and forth to work every single day. You don't get that time back. So's the that's the pitch for you know, high speed rail lines connecting the city centers where you have a lot of the higher paid jobs with the lower land value, lower cost housing that are that's farther away. All right, So you've heard me talk about Creative Video for almost a year, But did you know they also offer a game changing app for businesses that reward their teams with incentive trips. Well, they do. It's called Incentive Trip Kit. If you want a business or work at one that offers these incentive trips, this is a must have. It maximizes the impact and value of these motivational trips. 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From the text line, a lot of people commenting here this is from stand why don't we get the government out of the business of college and training for careers and make a combined effort between companies and education institutions. Businesses fund those institutions in exchange for the workers at for them. That way, taxpayers are never on the hook. Yeah. Look, I interviewed a guy runs an electric company. He's an electrician, and they have their own program to train up electricians because the local community college is still training students to get commercial electrical licensing for a plant that was in town but closed down decades ago. So it like there are models out there, Daisy says Pete. It's a sacrifice for a mom to stay home with her children, but it's a choice many couples refuse to make because it might require a smaller home or an older car. It's worth it to the children to have a full time mom. I realized sometimes it's impossible for this to happen, but I believe many could. But the kids drive the mom too crazy, and work is a reprieve. And this is Yes, it's the hardest job to do. Being a mom is the hardest job, and so I understand why people might not want to do it. You know, it's very difficult and you're always working. There's no reprieve. I understand that and don't mistake anything I'm saying. I'm not telling you this is what everybody needs to do. I'm a lowercase libertarian. People, i don't tell you how to live your life. I'm not telling you that. I'm just giving you information about data that's out there. And I don't think we do a service to people by telling them that there is a quote right way or wrong way, or a good way and a bad way to do this stuff. Everybody's different, and if we just say that these are just different choices, one is not worse than the other, maybe we break some of this peer pressure that forces people into thinking that this is what I have to do, you know, Mary, Welcome to the show. Hey Mary, Hi Pete. I'm always had a lot to say, and i always get nervous, so I'm gonna try and get through it. Okay, don't be nervous. So my one point is my son and daughter in law when they got married, she still had college loans, and my son said when they would try to pay them off, it was practically impossible. It went to interest only, like they were horrible, horrible loans. And I feel like that could be a because they're no debt people, and I feel like that could be something if we could just somehow regulate these loans that make them easier for somebody to pay off. You know, that could be one thing. But the other thing is is I'm a boomer, and I know where we can be obnoxious and if going hates us, but I'm going full boomer right now. When I was young, I had two roommates. You know, when I was like eighteen, I had two roommates. We lived in a one bedroom apartment in a terrible part of town. My friends and we're all still friends. They shared the bedroom. I slept on a cot in the dining room nice and we were just tickled to death. Now the hard thing now is it's hard to find a landlord that will let you do that, right But and so that is one thing. But I think the expectations now are just outrageous. I mean, I know somebody who wants to stay home with her child and always complains about the cost of daycare. In the meantime, she always drives a brand new car, she always has the latest iPhone, Her nails are done, her hair is always professionally done. And those are things that we would have never. Dreamed of doing. We would not have had our nails done or you know, browse threaded or anything like that. And so I think there's a bit of an unrealistic expectation of what life should look like. I think you are you know, I think I know you are exactly right. Mary actually did that very story. The size of the homes that people expect to have completely out of whack with what they earn. I gotta run, though I appreciate the call. Good to hear from you. Mary. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.