Charlotte's transit tax goes to voters (08-08-2025--Hour1)

What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepeakclendarshow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. Alrighty, so let's talk about transportation and the looming increase in taxes that's coming to Mecklenburg County. Well, anybody, visitors, locals, residents, everybody. This is actually there was an interesting write up about the about the impact of the transportation sales tax increase or transit sales tax increase that we will be asked to approve or reject in this upcoming November election. And this is by Steve Harrison. It was published over at the Charlotte Ledger, which I'm a subscriber to, and Steve Harrison as a reporter over at WFAE, and I think this is They call this feature transit time, I believe. And so he's got the numbers. He crunches a bunch of the numbers as to what impact this is going to have. So in case you aren't to wear. The North Carolina legislature put together this plan, but it would require voter approval first because it would include an increase in the sales tax, which the City of Charlotte and Mecklenberg commissioners and transportation advocates have been clamoring for for years in order to get more revenue into the train system basically and to a lesser extent, the buses. Yes, but it's really about building out this, uh this train plan which was first and back when this was first done, with the original sales tax increase and the original transit plan, I was a reporter here at WBT. I covered this extensively, and uh, you know, they they ended up approving it, and they built the South Corridor light rail line, and I remember the arguments for and against there were. You know, we even hosted a debate at one point pro and con. It did pass, and I suspect that chances are it's going to pass again, and a tax increase on the sales tax will pass again. I don't know if it will. I'm not predicting it will, But I suspect if I had to bet, if I had to make a prediction, I'd say chances are probably pretty good. Now that being said, there is a chance that it could fit. It is an off year election, right, which means lower turnout, which means if you can organize and motivate, galvanize the opposition movement whatever it is, you can actually, oh, you can vote this thing down. Part of the problem, though, I suspect, is going to be that a lot of the conservative, limited government, low tax kind of Republican voters they left. Those are the people that would help you vote against this kind of a thing, And many of them have gone to the surrounding counties because they got tired of all of the other tax increases that boosters and Democrats have done over the years in Charlotte to build all sorts of as the former WBT host Keith Larson used to call it, all of the shiny things in order to attract businesses and new residents. Right, to grow the city, you had to spend all this money, millions and millions, hundreds of millions, billions of dollars you had to spend for growth. Because growth doesn't pay for itself. We were always told, And one time I asked a planner, well, if growth doesn't pay for itself, then why would you want growth? Like, well, then you'd be dying. That's even worse, like okay, So it sounds like there's never an excuse to hold the line and to maintain a status quo. You're always growing, okay, and that always costs more money. So it seems like sort of a built in formula of heads eye, wind tails, you lose. So here's Steve Harrison's piece at the Charlotte Ledger. Mecklenberg voters will decide in November on whether to increase the county wide sales tax. It would go from seven and a quarter percent up to eight and a quarter percent. This would fund a multi billion dollar transportation plan. So far, most of the focus has been on what the plan will build, roads, new rail lines, more frequent bus service, and vastly more on demand micro transit. Have you heard of this term micro transit? Uber? Basically, so we're going to build an uber, Okay, why don't Why don't we just offer credits? Why don't we just cut some sort of a deal with Uber and Lyft? Why? Why do we have to maintain a fleet of vehicles running their own Uber program. I don't get it. Why do we have to control it? Probably because the credits to Uber would not you know, because they're going to charge people probably next to nothing to get taxi service. That's what we're talking about. It's a no on demand taxi service that's run by the local government, which will of course crowd out a lot of those Uber drivers, lift drivers and taxi companies, because that's what happens when the government enters into the marketplace and competes with private companies that are fulfilling a demand. They're providing a supply, they're doing so at a profit. Government comes in and subsidizes low prices with taxpayer funds, and so it's going to crowd out. In other words, it's going to put out of business these other companies. See this is my problem with the micro transit model. When gov Co runs it, gov Co should not be running this. I also would submit it's probably going to be less efficient and effective than Uber and Lyft and a taxi company. But how much would residents pay under this new tax Charlotte Area Transit System and the Charlotte City Council have not focused on the cost to residents, which is a complete shock to me, which would be substantially large. Get this then a typical property tax increase. So this is a key point here. People complain about property taxes going up, right, but they don't go up on an annual basis as much as this is going to cost you on an annual basis by an order of about three to five depending on the calculations you're going to. So this increase is three to five times greater than your normal kind of property tax rate increase in real dollars. According to a slide that was part of a presentation back in June, the city estimated that the increased tax would cost the average household in Mecklenberg County two hundred and forty dollars additionally a year. That's additional that's on top of this was the old Parks Helms argument. Parks Elms was the former county commission chairman, state legislator Democrat, and during one of the tax increase debates at the county level, he made a comment about it's only the price of a cup of slaw when he went to Chick fil A's. That's all that's all it is. It's just a cup of slaw, and that that was used plentifully. Let me say against him on this very station, because it's not just the cup of slaw. It's the cup of slaw plus all of the other costs before you tacked on the slaw. Right, it's like saying, well, I just got this cup of slaw, that's it. Well, no, you didn't just eat the slaw. You ate like a seventeen course meal, and then you threw on a cup of slaw and you're you're billing me to pay for it all two hundred and forty dollars a year. The city estimates that average low income households, the average low income household would pay one hundred and thirty two dollars a year, and that's also still more than your normal average property tax increase impact. 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Right, So you're somewhere in the neighborhood of on a twenty dollars purchase. Now you're spending probably over two bucks, maybe two fifty. Right, we're over ten percent over the course of a year, though that additional twenty cents adds up, and the range is, he writes, somewhere the estimate is somewhere between two forty and two ninety a year. The sales tax is applied to things like clothing, toys, electronics, restaurant and bar food, most drinks, furniture, and books. Some items are exempt, such as medicine, most groceries, and cars. Thirty percent of the sales tax proceeds according to the Charlotte Regional Business Alliance, which I guess was that the Chamber of Commerce, at one point, thirty percent of those tax proceeds will be paid by non Mecklenburg residents, so visitors, commuters from out of county, right, thirty percent paid by out of countiers. That a word, out of towners, although it is county wide. Okay, so thirty percent non Mecklenburg residents. Thirty five percent will come from mecklenburgers. The rest would be paid by businesses, so the same people basically, because if you are a business and you have to pay more when you're buying your stuff, right, you're buying your If you're a restaurant owner and you have to buy, you know, more to go cups, you're making that purchase, you've got to pay a sales tax on that, and you're going to pass that cost onto the consumers. Assuming that this split is similar, then we should take the remaining what it's got thirty and thirty five, so another thirty five percent and split that roughly half. So let's say what forty five percent is paid by out of towners, fifty five percent is going to be paid by residents, so most of it will be paid by us. Okay. Mecklenburg increased the county increased property taxes last year, and the county estimates that the median household will pay seventy four dollars in higher property taxes for the two increases of last year in this year twenty five and twenty six, seventy four dollars a year increase. And this had this had the county commissioners all twisted in a knot. I don't know if we can raise these property taxes. Is too much, but we've cut to the bone. There's nothing lab that we could cut. Here's some DEI contracts. Yeah, they can't cut anymore. They were so torn up about it. Seventy four dollars, This is two hundred and forty. It passed eight to one to put it to voters. The City of Charlotte did not raise property taxes this year, but it did increase them last year. That tax increase cost forty nine dollars for the median home. So forty nine dollars plus seventy four you're at about one hundred and twenty. That's still half of what the sales tax increase will cost us. Luckily, I live right near the county line. I will be going to a nearby county to spend all of my money on these purchases. The sales taxes applied to things like oh, I already mentioned that, sorry this page. The biggest hikes have been fees that homeowners pay for garbage stormwater water service. In fiscal You're twenty twenty five, the city said those hikes would also cost the median homeowner an additional sixty seven dollars for the next year, ninety dollars. Gosh, I don't know why people can't afford to live here anymore. It's a mystery. Let me go over to Chris. Hello, Chris, welcome to the program. Thanks Pete, sir, you kind of touched on my point right there at the end. I'm up here in Combar's County fighting against property tax hikes. I moved from Charlotte up here, and you know, the sales tax thing is a great idea in a way for all of us to share the burden instead of just homeowners, and also having our lively our homes threatened by taking away by force if we don't pay the property tax. But the scary part is, like you just touched on, if I'm going to go buy anything of substance, I'm not going to buy it where it's a you know, a percent or a percent and a half two percent more than the neighboring county. I'll take that half an hour drive to buy a fifty thousand dollars car or you know whatever cars are. Cars are exempt from the sales tax, so okay, yeah, yeah, but but to your point, stands about a large purchase. So yeah, if you're going to go, if you're going to go buy some appliances, let's say, and you're going to drop two thousand dollars, well, you know, you know, ten percent plus sales tax in Mecklinburg County, that's going to run you an extra two hundred bucks or so too fifty So yeah, that's that's worth a drive. Absolutely, and people will do that. But I do want protection on our property, like the property tax increases are even worse to me. But unless they raise all the sales tax at a state level, it's not going to protect like certain counties are going to be able to protect their citizens with a proper a sales tax increase because they won't, they'll just go to another county. So it's slippery slow. But I'm out of Mecklenburg, thank goodness. But we were fighting the same exact thing. Yeah here in Cobar's County, we're just a little behind you. Well, it's here's the thing. It's about priorities, right, It's about focusing on course services. And when cities believe that they have gotten all the course services funded and they're running smoothly, and then they start focusing on these other things, right, and then they start getting visionary. Shall we say, let's grow? Yeah, and so let's do all these things. And that's well. And that's the reason why this plan, as approved by the state General Assembly, got approved was because it mandated forty percent of this revenue to go to RHADS. So that because the original plan the City of Charlotte, they did not want it to go to roads. It was all going to be for transit. And the state said, my gas tax go h. Well, there's some federal gas tax revenue that's collected at the federal level, and then the state gas taxes go to the state dot. Where's my registration fees all of the different birds. The registration fees, your registration fees for just the registration that go well, hang on a second. There's a small fee that goes to the DMV to cover those costs. But then there are property taxes for your vehicle as well, and that's assessed at the county level, and I believe those go to the county, but I'm not sure. So many taxes, yeah, no, it's yeah, And that's what I mean. When governments do more and more and more, they have to fund these things and keep them funded, and so they just keep inflating the balloon. And then they just squeeze different sides of the balloon, like oh, lower property taxes, but higher sales taxes, or squeeze it the other direction. So yeah, but it always comes down to prioritization. Chris, I appreciate the call, Buddy, good to hear from you. Have a great weekend, all right, if you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why, Well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and it's a website, and it combines news from around the world in one place, so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself check dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent real quick on the numbers. By state law which was adopted this session that authorized this vote, at least forty percent of the money from the tax has to be spent on roads or road related projects, which includes by the way, sidewalks, and street lights. So I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's probably where the City of Charlotte's gonna funnel most of this money. No more than forty percent can be spent on rail transit, and twenty percent can be spent on other transit uses like buses and the micro transit option. The city has said that the sales tax would generate more than one hundred and thirty million dollars a year county wide for roads and road related projects, money that Charlotte and the six Mecklenburg towns would be free to spend on streets, sidewalks, crosswalks, street lights, and redesigning intersections. Now, there was some comments, There were some comments made at a Charlotte City council meeting where I believe the county or the city manager said, well, you know, we can get this extra money in and then we can look to reduce our spending at the city budget level to basically supplant that money. And when the state lawmakers heard that, they were like, yeah, you know what, we're gonna put an amendment into this bill. And you can't do that. You have to maintain current funding levels taken over like a five year your recent five year average that's what you got to maintain. It appears most of the money we go to expanding the new micro transit service that mimics Uber. They started this in North Mecklenburg in February. They planned to add eighteen additional zones. They're also going to be doing according to the transit law, calls for the Red Line commuter rail, which is not light rail, it's a heavier rail to go to Lake Norman to be built first. Katz has prioritized the Silver Line, which runs from the airport to Bojangles Coliseum, and then completing the Gold Line street car which is a complete waste to the east down Central Avenue and to the west along Baty's Ford Road, and then extending the Links Blue Line down into Pineville and by the way Pineville. Although those many years ago rejected the light rail line going into it, they did not want the South Quarter light rail line going into Pindel, and now they do. In the past, it should be noted here that they said they could build and operate the transit system for the amount of money that the one sent sales tax had was projected to bring in. This may shock you to learn, but those projections were not accurate in an ambition, abitious, ambitious project. List CAT said it can build and operate the trains for one hundred and thirty million dollars annually. But it's important to remember that what was promised when voters chose not to repeal the existing half sent sales tax for transit in two thousand and seven. At the time, the Links Blue Line had just opened. KATS built the extension, but it had to cut the line short and terminated at UNCC to save money. It shifted construction and operations of the street car to the City of Charlotte. I call that the Anthony Fox Line because Anthony Fox promised to leap frog that project over the other transit priorities in order to win the votes of the East Charlotte people in the mayor's race. It was the first race after Pat McCrory said he wasn't going to run for reelection again after seven terms. It was a tight race between John Lasseter the Republican, Anthony Fox the Democrat. So Fox made this promise to build the street car, and you know, McCrory was apoplectic. He's like, we sold everybody on this thing, Like the street car is a lower priority. It is not going to get a lot of usage. We should not be doing this, but you know, Anthony Fox needed the votes, so I guess it all worked out. So Katz underestimated how much it would cost to build and operate the trains at that time. They over promised eighteen years ago. Is it doing so again? I would say yes. That's kind of the way these things go. Tony, Welcome to the show. Hello Tony, Hey, good afternoon, Pete. I hope you're doing well. I am sir. How are you? I am good. A tremendous amount of growth in Charlotte Drow's got to be improved, some public transportation. I get all that, even with the funny projects they have. But what bothers me the most is when you get into these billion dollar projects, you've got the usual pigs at the trough. It is a circular take from the taxpayer. I know these engineers that work on these large state projects. These guys are making over three hundred thousand dollars a year base salary. They get bonuses fifty thousand to one hundred thousand. On top of that, they get vacations paid for all the booze they want to drink. All this stuff is coming from the taxpayers. Well, I just who who's accountable for this? It's not the state audi there's they you know, every everybody in Raleigh seems to be as corrupt as the next person. And it's not the legislators who who keeps an eye on these things? Well? Like which kinds of things? So are you talking about the firms that. Are talking about the I'm talking about the fat cats that are involved in these people? Yeah, But when you say who are involved in the projects, I'm asking like, are you talking about like private firms that get contracted? Are you talking about government officials? It's the closed network of private firms, right, It's it's a it's just a circular laundering basically that's done legally within the system. These these these firms, the contractors are way overpaid and who knows what's going back to the people that make it available to them. It's just it is just, Uh, these projects are just so bloated and there's there's no urgency to them. How long has that darn bridge hanging over forty five and Valentine. They're just I mean, they just they just linger there's no I mean, it's just the whole thing is just ridiculous, and we get to pay the bills. Right. Well, the the issue you run into is that there are not a lot of firms that can build a transportation system, that can and that can do this kind of work. So because you don't have a lot of competition for that work, they get to charge whatever they want. And you know what if the city comes in and says or cats comes in and says, no, we're not going to pay that, we want a lower price, and they're like, well, no, we're not going to give you a lower price. Like who do you Who else do you go to? They're out there, I mean, we've got the whole country to work with. They're they're they're available. They're gonna well yeah, but you're you're asking. I mean we are. They are soliciting bids from all over the country, but there are only so many firms that can do the work at this kind of a scale. You know, I don't I don't buy that part of it now. Okay, well I mean you don't have to. I just remember when they were doing it the first time, like Siemens was it. Yeah, you know that then they sub out like they have firms that they contract with and they sub it out. Like I'm not defending the amount of money that these people make. I'm just saying, like these are the This is the reality is that there's not a lot of competition for the kind of work and the kind of project management. Like there are not a lot of entities that can do this large of a project. And so because you don't have this huge supply of qualified firms, you end up picking from only a couple and then yeah, they know what each other charges. So there's only a couple of firms work at all these fast growing cities across the country. Yeah, I mean, because I mean you think about it, I mean they sub them out. Don't get me wrong, Like they have subcontractors and firms that they deal with. But again, like, how many companies do you think produce light rail train cars? Well? How many? I mean, there's an infinite supply of engineers to design projects. Okay, so there, I mean they on your end with the contractors. I don't know, but I know that there's there's major road projects happening all over the country. Well, those are road projects. I'm talking about the trans I'm talking about the light rail lines. I'm talking about the train projects. Yeah, that's a boondog as well. Oh, I thought your beef is on the roadside. My beef is the bloat and the abuse of taxpayer dollars. And it is blatant. It is blatant, and I just I would love I'll nominate Pat McCrory to be the guy to go to look into that. I don't think he's doing anything else these days, but somebody please, well look. And you should call in Tony, I would say, call into the State Auditor's tip line. The State auditor has a tip line. If you've got something you want the Auditor's office to look at, definitely use that. I appreciate the call. Good to hear from you, sir. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Stories connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. They help us process the meaning of life, and our stories are told through images and videos. Preserve your stories with Creative Video started in nineteen ninety seven in Minhill, North Carolina. It was the first company to provide this valuable service, converting images, photos and videos into high quality produced slide shows, videos, and albums. The trusted, talented and dedicated team at Creative Video will go over all of the details with you to create a perfect project. Satisfaction guaranteed. Drop them off in person or mail them. They'll be ready in a week or two. Memorial videos for your loved ones, videos for rehearsal, dinners, weddings, graduations, Christmas, family vacations, birthdays, or just your family stories, all told through images. That's what your photos and videos are. They are your life told through the eyes of everyone around you and all who came before you, and they will tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video dot com. A message from Russ who says, my wife and I grew up in Charlotte. Even though we moved a mile across the border almost twenty years ago, we still mostly live our lives in char We're friends, a lot of entertainment and shopping. For years, we've bought big ticket items though in South Carolina. One of the few good things about the COVID restrictions was learning we could easily adapt to doing everything in South Carolina instead of Charlotte. We've gone back to a lot of our pre pandemic behavior since, but switching back if the new tax goes into effect will not be that difficult. Regarding Tony's call, there this message from Kenny who says it sounds like that guy's mad that engineers make a fair amount of money, does it? Yeah, and look, I don't know anything about the going rate of an engineer. I don't He said, you know, the supply of engineers is infinite. I don't believe that. I think there is a finite I don't know what the number is, but I think there is a finite number. Bo, Welcome to the show. Hello, Bo, Hey, good good as How are you? I'm well, how are you well? I'm slightly injured because fell out of my chair. Uh oh yeah. When the guy said that we should call Pat McCrory to help us, you'll look into some boon doggles. I think I've injured multiple pieces and parts. I'm on the impression we got the biggest boondoggle potentially. That's the still on record, although I think they're trying to challenge that. When we got the McCrory line after we voted that we didn't want it. I think Pat's writing a book on how to get boon doggles after you're considering. Well, no, now that was the arena referendum, so too. Yeah, yeah, that was the arena referendum for a new uptown arena and a new ballpark uptown for the Charlotte Knights, and a new Mint Museum and a new Afro Am Museum and a new Discovery Place, and voters rejected that. I think it was two thousand or maybe two thousand and one, And then, of course nine to eleven happened. The financial markets were wreck and so it actually turned out to be a very good thing that we did not start taking out a lot of debt. But then, yes, right after that vote, then there was another city council election, and literally the night of the election, the winning candidates started saying they're going to bring back the arena projects, and lo and behold, all these years later, they got every one of those projects done. They built every one of the things that voters said no to. Yeah, we really need to reach out to Pat right away. Yes, yeah, And now, look in Pat's defense, and I had many discussions and arguments with him after city council meetings during this time period when I was reporting, and I would go up to him and I would ask him, you know, questions during the interviews, and then when I would stop, the interview would be over, and then you know, we would go back and forth and he'd make fun of me for being a libertarian and that sort of thing. And I will say, though, he was always consistent that the light the South Quarter light rail line was in order to provide options to the congestion. Right, it was never going like the argument that people were making pro transportation people make is that it's going to take cars off the road. That has never been, in my mind, has never been a persuasive argument, because what happens is you end up with a lot of transit oriented development around the lines, and those people then also have vehicles, maybe not as many, but they will have vehicles. So when you pack in the development which we see on the South Line, there are people that have cars down there, and South Boulevard is now even more congested than it was before it got completely built up with all of the apartments. Right. But it's to provide the option. Yeah, it is. You know, Charlotte has not is not has not been designed to be a walkable city, right and won't be in my. Lifestyle, no, right, because it was not originally. There was another story from that time period was when they brought a guy named Andres Dewane to town and he is the sort of the pioneer, if you will, in neo urbanism design when it comes to like planning and zoning and that sort of thing. And if you've ever seen the movie The Truman Show, it takes place down is a real life town. That's a real life place. I think it's called Seaside in Florida. And that was the first big neo urbanism project and you see a lot of Burkdale Village. They did Burkdale Village then, and he came to town and he was talking about you know, development and that sort of thing. And it was in one of those meetings where they explained, like why do our roads, why are our roads laid out as they are? It's because they followed the old trading paths and then they just would pave the trading paths. Well, where did the trading paths come from? Well, they came from hunting paths. That was initially like they would have hunting paths and they were just kind of worn down. Where did the hunting paths come from? Animals? Where the herds moved, so basically like animals designed our road system here, it has never been I mean except for like Center City where you actually have like a grid pattern going on. But then they ran interstates right through it because they thought at the time that that was the thing to do, that that was going to get people to, you know, pull off the interstate and stop in their town. And that's been a mess and absolutely well tithe. The good thing is is that Charlotte, particularly parts of uptown, is going back to the animals, so you know we do have that going. It is going back to nature. Oh I appreciate the call, sir, have a good weekend. Yeah, it's nature's healing itself. Yeah. This was one of the things I learned when I was up in Asheville. They did the exact same thing. Two seventy seven. The interstate that runs no sorry, I was going to confuse. Two forty runs right through Ashville, and they built that because they thought our downtown is dying, mainly because they went bankrupt during the Great Depression because they spent way too much money, took out all these bonds, they went bankrupt. State had to bail them out, and they thought, well, our downtown is dead, So what do we do to get people to come into our downtown spend money? And they thought, well, we'll have an interstate run right through it, and then people will see the downtown and want to pull off. And then, of course, as you know, people began moving back after they got out from under the bankruptcy. They you know, now you just sit in traffic, not moving while you look at the downtown and then you're like, yeah, I got to get out of here. And then you get into the downtown it's like, oh my gosh. These roads are terrible too. But they I mean, they got geographical problems because it's the mountains. You know, there's very few straight lines you can draw between point A and point B because you got to go around a mountain to get there. You know. Yeah, bad planning decisions made long ago. They we are still suffering those effects. I mentioned this the other day. You know, Highway seventy four Independence Boulevard, and they keep widening that and widening that, and I've seen signs for twenty years that's say future seventy four. So they want to turn they want to turn that into an interstate at some point, you know, and they're making it more and more lanes wide because they build all the strip malls along there, and this whole idea that like, look, I am of the mindset that you take your interstate type roads and you keep them away, you keep them away from towns, away from cities, and then you have loops, you have branches that come off of there take you a couple miles to get into that city, because the interstates are supposed to be where people could just move quickly and get between cities. And then you if you want to go to the city along the way, then you would pull off and you would take another access road all the way in rather than running like seventy seven right through the center of the city of Charlotte. And every single time I'm on seventy seven, it is a mess. Doesn't matter the time of day anymore. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to dpeecaalnarshow dot com Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.