Charlotte Police thinking of suing the city over "reputational damage" (05-06-2025--Hour3)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalinarshow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, write to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] Last hour, we talked to Joe Bruno. Well, the last half hour of the show, we talked to Joe Bruno from WSOC TV. And I want to go a little bit more in depth on one aspect of this story. Okay, that's a lie. I'm probably going to go in depth on more of it. But I want to start off with this one aspect of the story about the Charlotte-Mecklenburg police chief, Johnny Jennings, is reportedly contemplating suing the city

[00:00:58] for half a million dollars, claiming that a city councilman now off the council because he's working for the Trump administration, Tark Bakari, this is the councilman's name, that Tark Bakari maligned him to such a degree that his reputation was damaged.

[00:01:19] And he has apparently put that price tag at half a million dollars. I don't know how he comes up with that number. I don't know what reputational harm he actually did suffer.

[00:01:31] However, I had completely forgotten about the whole brouhaha over the police vests. Because in the grand scheme of things, it really, it didn't matter. Unless, of course, somebody had their feelings hurt because they lost on the issue, which Jennings did.

[00:01:51] Because he did eventually cave and say, fine, I will let, if officers want to get these vests, they will be permitted to get them, but he's not going to force everybody to wear the vest. And the only reason was aesthetics. That was it. You're going to look too militarized, which is something that the leftists say. It's just a vest. You could put your stuff in it.

[00:02:16] You wear it on the outside, you put your flashlight in it, your handcuffs and your notepad, your smartphone, whatever. So it's all, it's easily accessible. And these cops were asking for this vest and they were being told no. And so Tark Bakari says, well, they should be able to get these vests. And Chief Jennings is like, no. And in text messages, Councilman Bakari pleads with him, urging him, please let these guys have these vests.

[00:02:43] And if not, like I'm going to launch a campaign for this and it's going to get, you know, it's going to get some traction and it's not going to be good for you. And the, yeah, the report here, let me start with WFAE. They reported that the council was considering giving Jennings up to $300,000 following text messages that then Councilman Tark Bakari sent him in 2024

[00:03:10] when the council member was at odds with the chief over the type of bulletproof vests that should be issued to CMPD officers. WFAE published those text messages in November. In May, Bakari told Jennings that, quote, whatever happens from this point forward is not personal. And Jennings responded, as long as you stick to that, we are fine. Just know that I don't plan on sitting on my hands either.

[00:03:36] Okay, so like they're telling each other, game on. These cops need to have these vests. And Jennings is saying, no, they don't. And Bakari, as a member of council, but albeit one of only two Republicans, so a distinct minority on council, doesn't really have any power to force CMPD to do this unless he can convince a majority of the city council to do it, which he can't.

[00:04:04] He didn't, he did not have the pull to get all of those Democrats on council to vote with him on this over their police chief. They just wouldn't do it. So what's he, what is he left with? A public pressure campaign. And so he's telling Jennings, this is what I'm going to do. And Jennings says, that's fine. As long as you don't make it personal, that's fine. But I'm not going to be holding back either. So game on. Okay.

[00:04:31] So Bakari criticizes Jennings in an interview on WCNC TV about the vests a couple of weeks later in July. He also texted Jennings and told him he made a terrible error in judgment, my friend. I hate what comes next. So this is what I've sent this message. No, I would actually not be sending any messages. This is not how I operate. I go on the radio.

[00:05:02] I would not, I would not be telling you like, oh, what's coming next. Oh, you should have done this. Oh, like I'm not smack talking in text messages to you. I will lay out my case on the air or to your face. The former council member texted Jennings to tell him he planned on hammering Jennings. That's a quote in the press and political circles. And he said he would not stop and it will cripple your legacy you've worked so hard for. This has Hunter Biden vibes.

[00:05:31] I'm sorry, but it does. Remember the Hunter Biden text message where he was trying to get the Chinese guy to pay off? And he's like, you know, you will learn no one holds a grudge like a Biden or whatever it was. Bakari texted Jennings. You have 36 hours to call it all off by compromising in some small way. Otherwise, it's in God's hands. So I don't know what that's about. I don't know what the calling it all off. What is all? I don't know. What is he?

[00:06:00] What is Bakari referring to? To call what all off? Is Jennings whipping up votes against Bakari? Is this about a complaint, an ethics complaint that the NAACP filed against Bakari over this? So where my mind goes, if I'm just connecting some dots, right, in a Charlie Day kind of way, I'm thinking Jennings and the NAACP and maybe some people over at CMPD,

[00:06:29] are they coordinating with the NAACP to file the ethics complaint in order to get Bakari to stand down? When Jennings says, I'm not sitting on my hands either, does he call the NAACP? Does he text with Reverend Corinne Mack? We'll work with you on some language for the ethics complaint. So now we can get an ethics complaint against Bakari and we can bring some pressure on him. He may be able to bring a pressure campaign in the media against me,

[00:06:58] but I can go after him on an ethics violation. Is that what happened? I don't know. I want to be very clear. I am simply spitballing here because there are a lot of pieces of information that are not available. We have a lot of gaps in our knowledge. All I can go by is what's in the reports I have in front of me. Jennings never responded to that text.

[00:07:26] He did eventually compromise, which is what Bakari was asking for in that text message to compromise in some small way. And the compromise was that the city wasn't paying for the vest. Bakari then raised the money privately. And then Jennings said, fine, if people request it, they can get one. And that's how it ended.

[00:07:51] But meanwhile, behind the scenes, people's feelings got hurt. That's what this looks like. Because I would need to see some actual damages to reputation that Jennings suffered because of that public disagreement.

[00:08:08] And honestly, in a city and in a county, as Democrat as we are, why would Tark Bakari's comments cause you enough reputational damage to warrant half a million dollars? You didn't lose your job. Right. I don't think he got denied any raises or anything. There were no penalties here. What were the damages? To me, that seems a pretty important piece of it.

[00:08:36] And I don't like the idea that you come in and you say, I'm considering suing, so maybe you should just pay me now. No, maybe you should draw up the freaking complaint, sir. Maybe that's the first step. Put your stuff in writing. Let's hear exactly what it is you've got to say. And then the city would be in a position with the advice of a lawyer to say, this is a pretty good argument that he's making. Let's avoid litigation. And then you settle.

[00:09:06] You don't settle before you even file a lawsuit. You don't settle before you even lay out the allegations and put it on paper so everybody can understand what the evidence is. You have to give people some sort of a summary. Make the allegations. They're not to be public. You could do it all in closed session. It's attorney-client privilege. I'm fine with that. But you've got to put this down.

[00:09:32] Simply threatening a lawsuit and then getting paid out, that looks shady. It looks really, really shady. To me. Again, I don't have all the information. Because you guys control all the information and you're keeping it from me. So, and everybody else. So all I can tell you is what it looks like from the outside. All right. So spring is here. A time of renewal and celebrations. You've got graduations, weddings, anniversaries, and the special days for mom and dad. Your family's making memories that are going to last a lifetime.

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[00:10:58] Last week announced that he is considering suing the city. Sources said he felt unfairly targeted and suffered reputational damage over the dispute with former City Councilman Tark Bakari and the purchasing of the new vests for law enforcement, for police officers.

[00:11:24] I simply ask, what is the evidence that reputational damage was actually suffered? Because if it's just your feeling, that's not worth half a million dollars. Let's go over to the phones and chat with Spencer. Hey Spencer, how are you? How are you doing, Pete? Good, what's up? I thought there was another issue in this whole thing. The four officers that got killed in that shootout,

[00:11:53] where the guy was in the upstairs window shooting a rifle, all of those officers were wearing vests that would protect against pistol rounds, and they could be worn under your uniform. But the vest that protects against rifle rounds was so heavy and had plates in it, they had to be worn on the outside.

[00:12:18] And that's why Jennings didn't want them to wear it, because it would make their uniforms look like they were, you know, militaristic. But I would suggest that had the pistol round protection vest been kind of bulky and had to be worn on the outside, that Jennings would have not let them wear the original vest. Any vest at all? Yeah, I don't know if the...

[00:12:47] Yeah, I'm not sure. I do seem to recall a couple things. Well, number one, I do seem to recall your description there about the rifle, pistol, round, vest differences. Number two, though, if I recall correctly, the officers that were killed were a marshal's office. They weren't CMPD, if I remember correctly. But still, it goes that the difference in the vest made them look militaristic.

[00:13:16] Right. And so, right, so that was the third thing, then, is that either way, it always comes back to the aesthetics of the vest being the issue. Yeah, and that's why I said if the pistol round vest was bulky like that and had to be worn on the outside, I don't think Jennings would have let them wear those. Yeah, he might not have. Yeah, for all I know, he may not have. I don't know. Or maybe said, no, there's some other thing to wear and that's got even less protection

[00:13:45] as long as it goes under the uniform. Yeah. It's a good question. I don't know the answer. Now, and here's another thing, on the reputational harm that he allegedly suffered, you know, I'm not aware of any political harm that he would suffer in Charlotte-Mecklenburg, but maybe there's something going on inside of the police department ranks, right? The rank and file may have a different opinion of him now because of this fight. That's possible, too. But is that Bakari's fault?

[00:14:15] Or is that Jennings' fault for taking the position he took based on purely aesthetics? That's right. Yeah. Spencer, I appreciate the call, buddy. Good to hear from you. All right. See ya. Yeah. I try to think through the different angles on stories and issues. And so if I'm, like, trying to scratch my head and think, okay, what damage could he have suffered?

[00:14:45] I really cannot imagine local Democrat politicians taking a dim view of Chief Johnny Jennings over this issue in a fight with Tark Bakari that probably 99% of the Democrat politicians in our area don't like. They don't like Bakari. So, if anything, it feels like they would be happy that you're pushing back on Bakari because they don't like him.

[00:15:13] Now, maybe at the state level, maybe different for politicians up there. But so that's, you know, one part of it. Now, the other part of it is the public. What's the public perception of him? I don't know how he would know if he suffered reputational harm among the public. Do they put out some polling or something on this issue? Or maybe it could be with his own officers because his officers are asking for these vests that are better for them.

[00:15:41] I don't know if they provide more protection. I don't believe it did. But maybe they do. And if he's saying no, I could easily see some law enforcement officers, CMPD officers, you know, getting a little, hmm, taking some umbrage, let's say. They may take some umbrage that their boss will not allow them to have a better vest,

[00:16:11] even if it means that they could survive a shootout. Because the boss is more interested in looks, right, than officer protection. I could see that being a problem for him. Yeah, definitely. But again, I have no evidence of that because there hasn't been any evidence laid out for us. But we do have evidence that there was communication going on between CMPD and the local NAACP

[00:16:38] about filing an ethics complaint against Bukhari. Why would the NAACP ask CMPD to file an ethics complaint before she files the ethics complaint? What would you need from CMPD to do that? Unless you're doing it for them. Is that possible? That could be possible. See, I'm just asking questions.

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[00:18:31] So one of the four agents, law enforcement officers that were murdered while serving the warrant in East Charlotte last year, last April 29th, was a CMPD officer. I guess two were Marshall's office and then there was another one from the state that was there serving the warrant, if I recall correctly. At Patriot Girl says, Chief Jennings' attempt to extort thousands from the taxpayers is outrageous. He should resign in disgrace immediately.

[00:19:00] As a taxpayer of Mecklenburg County, I am asking for his resignation. Could it be an effort to cost Bokkari his position in the Trump administration? That maybe, I don't know, another message I got says, maybe the purpose of the potential shakedown is about torpedoing Mrs. Bokkari from getting appointed to the seat, right?

[00:19:25] Because Tark Bokkari's wife is interested in filling the remainder of his unexpired term. And Russ says, Throughout this stage, Chief Jennings seems to be conflating, or seemed to be conflating, the protective effects of the under-the-shirt pistol vests and the outer rifle protective gear. He was making it sound like there was no difference other than the optics. The councilmen and officers were saying they wanted more protection

[00:19:55] and better access to gear. Also, I recall early reports from that shooting event where it was speculated that had the officers had the exterior vests with a drag loop, it might have made it easier to get the downed officers out of the line of fire and render aid sooner. Right? So a strap that you, like if I get shot, I'm wearing the vest, I get shot, somebody can grab that strap and drag me away more easily. It's part of the vest.

[00:20:24] Yeah, see, this is what I mean. Like the reputational damage that Jennings is alleging, I'm unclear on because people don't even, even I don't remember all of the details of that argument. And like, I did not have any lower opinion of the police chief after that, after that debate. Unchallenged ideas are easy to hold. Me disagreeing with somebody

[00:20:53] and trying to get them to change their mind and do a policy I think is better. Like that is not reputational damage to you. Let me go over and talk to Ed. Hello, Ed. Welcome to the show. Boy, you can't be with this guy, just said. It's unbelievable. But this guy, this chief of police ought to resign. You know, this is nothing about a bunch of collusion. He's supposed to be fighting crime. Crime is rampant in this city.

[00:21:23] Whether they tell you not or whatever, there's murders all over the place here. How many people got murdered on his watch? So why wouldn't you give the policemen the protection to go do their job? It's pretty simple. You can't go into war with a knife. Right. Well, I think... You have no one behind the door. Yeah. His argument, I think at the time, was that the, that there was no protection difference. I don't know if that's true.

[00:21:51] And I don't recall the specific arguments because this was, you know, two years ago, whenever it was, when the fight was happening. But why is the NAACP getting involved in this stuff and colluding? They're all doing backdoor stuff here and this doesn't look good for the council. No, it doesn't. Anybody that votes to give this guy any money, there should be a caveat there. I give you the money. You need to resign. You need to go. Let's get somebody in here that can crime fight.

[00:22:21] I mean, the people here in this city are pissed off. We've had enough of this stuff. You know, anytime you see somebody get murdered, when you hear about it, it breaks your damn heart because there are a whole mess of people behind it, family members, that have to suffer through all this stuff. Yeah. It shouldn't be. Yeah, well, and the first responders, law enforcement, everybody, yeah, it's traumatic for a lot, a lot of people. It changes people's lives permanently. Every time, every time there's a murder in this city,

[00:22:51] they should wake up the councilman in that area or the council person in that area and have to go and let them see exactly what these first responders have to say. Then they're going to change their tone. The only time they're going to change their tone about crime fighting is if they have to go see it firsthand because, let me tell you something, it isn't a pleasant scene. Yeah. Believe me. Yeah. Ed, I appreciate the call. Yeah. Yes, sir. Thank you. Ed raises the question.

[00:23:20] Why is the NAACP involved in this? What is the nature of this relationship? So according to WSOC TV, two top aides to the police chief advised what should be in a complaint against former Charlotte City Councilman Tark Bokari. Channel 9, WSOC, obtained emails sent from the personal email accounts of Major Brad Koch, the assistant to the chief, and Sandy Vestola,

[00:23:51] the Public Affairs Division Bureau commander. Channel 9 first reported the ethics complaint's existence on Friday. The complaint was filed in January by the NAACP president, Reverend Corinne Mack, and it was dismissed by interim city attorney, Anthony Fox, a short time later. By the way, the city council also just, just let go their attorney, the city attorney. Is that related to all of this? I don't know.

[00:24:21] All of that stuff happens in closed session. Vestola sent Major Koch an email on August 27th. And, again, this is from the Public Affairs Division Bureau commander to Major Brad Koch, who is Jennings' right-hand man. Quote, Hey, I would have her focus on TARC and the Fraternal Order of Police in their official capacities, taking this on as a crusade

[00:24:51] against the chief with personal and major threats to force him to retire slash get fired, and forgetting that the operational decisions of this department rest with the chief of police, not bullies who try to bully him into making decisions that may not be in accordance with his desires. Threats against his home by disclosing where he lives, stating publicly that he forced officers to check his home. Bakari tried to claim that he was doing this as a citizen

[00:25:19] and not in his official capacity. He has been in his official capacity the entire time. He has been threatening the chief the entire time. Right? Because Bakari would say things like from the dais at the council meetings, like, I'm going to take off my city councilman hat and I'm just going to say this as a private citizen, which I don't know if you, I don't know how that stands up in court. I really do not know. I'm not saying that that's protective or not. So Major Koch

[00:25:48] takes this email from Sandy Vastola and forwards it to the NAACP leader the next day. And lo and behold, this language turns up in her complaint. The ethics complaint includes sentences that were similar and at times identical to the email that was forwarded to Reverend Mack. Reached by phone, Vastola said that she had, quote, no involvement with crafting the complaint.

[00:26:18] Well, no, I don't think that's actually true, is it? Because your email says I would have her focus on Tark Bakari and the FOP in their official capacities. So you knew that the complaint was being drafted up. Your boss, I assume, asked you what she should put in there or how she should frame it and what's the best way to approach it or whatever. And you offered advice to that. So I would say that is involvement.

[00:26:47] Yeah, that's involvement in the crafting of a complaint. If I were to, I don't know, do an analogy to a crime, for example. If somebody says to you, hey, I'm fixing to rob a store. What's the best way to go about doing that? And you then give them some advice on how to do that and then they go do it. I'm pretty sure that the cops might show up at your door and say, hey, you were involved in the commission of this crime. Right? That's involvement.

[00:27:16] She said she did speak with Reverend Mack about concerns that Mack had about Bokari. She described her role as simply answering questions. And maybe that's all it was. I don't know. A spokesperson for the city of Charlotte said neither Vestola nor Koch violated city policy. All right. If you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events. And I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say, get your news from multiple sources. Why? Well, because it's how you detect

[00:27:45] media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with Ground News. It's an app and it's a website and it combines news from around the world in one place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check.ground.news slash Pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using Ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom.

[00:28:15] The Blind Spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself. Check.ground.news slash Pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get 15% off any subscription. I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports Ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. Greg emails why don't they just settle this the old-fashioned way?

[00:28:44] A duel. Each wearing the vest of their choice. I don't know. John says, don't forget Ed Driggs is still a Republican on the city council. Yeah, that's true. Jay says, Jennings not wanting to have a militarized look is BS. CMPD switched to uniforms that look like BDUs or military uniforms like six to ten years ago. Um,

[00:29:14] I do wonder why they wear such dark uniforms in this heat. I always feel bad for them. So back to the WSOC story, WSOCTV.com reporting by Joe Bruno that we spoke with, we spoke with him last hour. So a spokesperson for the city of Charlotte said that neither Vestola nor Koch violated city policy. City personnel rules and regulations recognizes

[00:29:44] each employee's constitutional right to join or affiliate with political organizations, attend political meetings, and advocate and support political principles and policies. State law recognized that every employee has the constitutional right to engage in free speech and association, said spokesperson Jason Schneider. City personnel rules prohibit city employees from, quote, engaging in any political activity while on duty and may not use any supplies or equipment owned by the city for any other

[00:30:13] political purposes. Right, so them using their personal email would not have violated any of this, any of the city personnel rules. But then that also makes me question why are they using the emails, the private emails, but for avoiding the rules, right? So they know that this is, they know they are engaging in some kind of a political activity. It's protected.

[00:30:43] I'm not saying they should be fired. I'll be clear about that. Like, I'm not calling for them. As far as I know, they haven't done anything that would warrant them getting fired. But you cannot say that you were not involved in the complaint. You knew that the NAACP leader wanted to file a complaint against Tark Bokhari. And when she asked you to, or maybe she asked Jennings, and then Jennings kicked it over to you, or maybe he had no idea. I don't know. We need a TikTok,

[00:31:13] not the social media app. We need a chronology. What was the chronological order where all these comms were going on? Who reached out to whom? Right? We have some bit of, you know, time stamps here from the email exchange. But there was obvious involvement with two people inside CMPD helping the NAACP draft a complaint against

[00:31:43] Tark Bokhari, sitting city councilman. This was before he got the appointment up to the Trump administration. Was this retribution? Was this using the NAACP? Like, did CMPD try to use the NAACP in order to hurt Bokhari? Or was this something the NAACP was off freelancing on their own? This was their operation that they were running and they happened,

[00:32:13] she, Curran Mack, happens to know Johnny Jennings. That would not surprise me at all. In fact, I expect the head of the NAACP to be very well acquainted with the police chief and maybe even his right-hand man. I assume that CMPD does a lot of events with the NAACP. Right? Various events, all sorts of things. You're doing any kind of like, you know, events gala or something. You want to invite the police chief and you're going to do some community safety event. You want to invite CMPD.

[00:32:42] I have no doubt whatsoever. There's nothing inappropriate about that whatsoever. Then you develop a relationship. You have the chief's number or you have his right-hand man's number and so you reach out to this person because this is the one you know. And rather than Koch or Vestola, rather than them saying, you know what, we shouldn't be engaged in this kind of behavior, they said, well, we'll take it offline out of the government servers and we'll put it on, you know, Google email or Gmail accounts or whatever

[00:33:12] and we'll email you that way. So they recognized that this would not be appropriate to do from a city employee standpoint, which means they did recognize the political nature of it because they moved it off to private email. Or maybe they always communicate via private email. I don't know. See, again, there are lots of gaps in this story, but it's still early, it's still developing, so there are going to be a lot of gaps. And there's

[00:33:40] no formal complaint where you would spell all of this stuff out and then it could be tested in a court of law or in mediation or something, but we are deprived of that as well because all we get is the police chief is threatening to sue for half a million dollars because of reputational harm. WBT is the one who reported

[00:34:10] that Jennings wants half a million dollars. We also reported that the chief is the one who reached out to the head of the NAACP asking her to file the complaint and then his staff got busy with those emails. Signed, your colleague Mark Garrison, news director. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate it. Right, so okay, so there you go. There's the detail. Jennings reached out to the NAACP asking her to file the complaint. That seems pretty important. So now you get your friend in the

[00:34:40] NAACP to file the complaint. Now you go and say, well, if you don't want me to sue you guys, you know, give me half a million dollars. Because now the complaint doesn't even matter, right? Because Bakari's gone. Yeah, this is, it just smacks of a shakedown. All right, real quick, sad note to report to you that Brad Krantz, former WBT host here, he passed away today.

[00:35:09] there is a memorial service that will be held on Friday at 11 a.m. up in Greensboro where he lived and our prayers are with his family and may his memory be a blessing. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast. So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to

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