Chad Adams in for Pete Kaliner (07-09-2025--Hour3)

What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, I daily show prep with all of the links. Become a patron, go to dpekclendershow dot com, make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. Right now, very special guest, Donald Vandervart. I've known him for many years. But to give you a little bit of background, here's what's fun. I always like this because if you're talking to him, you would never know this, and he would never tell you this because he's got a very great attitude about stuff. But he had a bachelor's degree in chemistry from unc Unfortunately he did go to Chapel Hill. Then he went on to get a jurisd doctorate from the same play. So he becomes a lawyer and actually North Carolina Central. Then gets a master's degree from chemical engineering at NCSU, so he finally got right in the head about that. Then picked up a doctorate in chemical engineering from university of Cambridge. In spite of all that. Not really a nerdy guy. Welcome to the show. How the heck are you a Donald? Don Quite well, Chaed, and thank you for having me on. It's just it's just a I don't know how you found time, and yet somehow you're still, you know, fairly young. I don't know how you pulled all that off, but you did. Nonetheless. Now you also were the head of the Department of Environmental Quality. You were the first one to rise through the ranks of that organization as an actual scientist, and were appointed in the Republican administration. That's right, that's right, and served as a science advisor to the governor and then eventually secretary under McCrory. Yes, so I said all that to say to ask you a couple of questions. You've been at the forefront. You know, I knew you prior to that time as being the grand poobah, where all of a sudden you were more difficult to get ahold of. I'm kidding. You were always accessible. But what did you cause you saw? I remember well having discussions with you were you were very concerned about the encroachment of using the environment as a way to control, minimize effect you know, businesses in people's rights and things of that nature. And so do you still see that as problematic because I think you can have both. You can protect the environment and not get in the way. What did you see in your time at DEQ. Well, I mean, first of all, it's really a synergy, a synergistic effect. On the one hand, I don't think and America is blessed with having a strong economy, a strong economic model that is free enterprise. But you know, I think that part of that is protecting people's health and having a robust environmental management program. But you can't have a robust environmental program without having a robust a robust economy. So yeah, I think you can have both. But it's it's you know, And one of the one of the things I always would say at my time at the d EQ was, you know, as a regulator, the easiest thing in the world is to say, oh, you got to reduce your emissions, you got to do this, you got to clean this up. But you know that isn't the job of environmental management organization. What we have to do is is way and balance the effects of regulation on the economy and to make sure that the economy can sustain continued protection of the environment. So it's actually a pretty difficult job in that regard, and that's I think that's the challenge. And so in some cases, like the previous Biden administration, I think what you saw was people just simply saying, oh, this is easy. I'll just tell you to stop, you know, stop a knitting, X, Y, and Z, to the exclusion of considering the impacts. So I think what you're seeing in the current administration is a is an effort to rebalance those those two very important requirements saving saving the environment and protecting public health, but maintaining economy so that you can actually do that in. Your time at d EQ, D E, n R. For those of us who will then have to remember that, you know, I'm sure you're well aware of the Coastal Area Management Authority. You're well aware of the Federal Army Corps of Engineers, and the and and then the process by which you have to deal with those agencies and d EQ and how these mesh together in a way that all of us have to kind of abide by this. Do you see those rules as becoming better or do you see those rules as becoming worse, or do you see many of them that are outdated that. Need to be updated. Kind of give us your take on those kind of agencies. And that's a great point, and I think a General Assembly a number of years ago made a great move in requiring and it sounds like a long term effect, but it isn't. It actually is a pretty pretty reasonable cycle. Every ten years, the General Assembly has required all the agencies to review their rules and make sure that the rules are still needed. And if they are still needed, they're going to go through rule making and get all their scrutiny and the benefits of that process. But if they're not, they're going to jettison them. And and prior to that reg reform it was reg reform bills, actually a regulatory reviews what they termed as. But prior to that you would have these these ancient rules that have been superseded many times over by new rules, including layered on federal rules, and without any kind of regard to trying to integrate them or try to remove the redundancies. And so my hat's off to the legislature in that in that regard, because in fact we're now starting the second cycle of that review, and it's going to be just like it was in the first cycle. It's going to be even more robust this time, and it's going to be extremely beneficial. So yeah, that's that's absolutely a challenge. How do you see the role Obviously, we've had two terms of Cooper and then now we're in the first of Josh Stein. I think Josh Stein anyways, is a new Democrat relative to Cooper, who really I think hated Republicans. It seems like Stein didn't grow up in an era where he hated them. They were just the opposing party. How do you see the role of Deaner moving or excuse me, d EQ moving forward? How do you see the rules? Do you see it becoming worse better? I mean, I know you mentioned the legislature, but there's hey, the executive branch is the executive branch. It's probably a little early to tell on the current Stein administration. I think I would agree with you, Especially in Cooper's second term, it became I think it became overly burdensome in his second term especially, and I think you know, some indications are already in that Governor Stein is is uh is I think a little bit more in tune to some of the points I made earlier, which is that they that that this that these are not these shouldn't be conflicting goals. They should they should be synergistic, and so I'm cautiously optimistic. I think. I think probably even more important, however, is the distinction between the Biden because so much of what we do in the environment is essentially implement federal programs. And I think the distinction between the Biden administration and the Trump administration is going to be much more uh market and more more obvious and more needed because of some of the very aggressive steps that Biden took, especially towards the end and and and that, and that will be a great thing for the environment, but also because a lot of them, as I think you alluded to it, a lot of times, it's just difficult to figure out what the requirement are because you've got so many overlapping agencies. And and I think that that's one of the things that the Zelden Group is going to try to streamline and make more productive and more efficient. You referred to Lee zeld In, the head of the EPA, who has said, hey, we want to they want to unleash America's energy potential. At the same time, they've got millions of acres of federally protected lands, and they think that these things can work in harmony. I mean, obviously the the and war situation. You know, millions of acres up there in Alaska that people want to portray it as almost like pristine wilderness like Montana, but it's much more arctic tundra. It's very different. It's very stark landscape than than Montana would be. Now again, we've got to unleash the energy potential where we're we're seeing that change. You know, do you ever see a time that that the two sides And I spend a great deal of the show saying it looks like the two sides are moving further apart rather than in a way in harmony to say, hey, we have some we have the same problem. We just need to figure out how to solve it. How do you see that? I mean, I'm a conservationist, so I'm looking at wildlife. I'm a big, big advocate, but I see deer population surging. I don't remember seeing deer as a kid. I see thousands of them now. The same thing with wild boring I mean not wild board of these feral pigs. But you've got wild turkey. I don't remember seeing wild turkey as a kid. We've got them all over the state now I count them in the dozens as I'm going by and seeing flock. So it looks like in some ways wildlife is doing quite well in North Carolina. What's your take on that? Because I know that Wildlife Resources was not under your you know your area. But what do you say to all this because that's where these two things intersect. Well, we did have fisheries under us. And you tell it, Donald, I didn't even realize that I was enjoying the break, So I mean the time so much I need to go to break. So stay with me because I want to continue where we are with Donald vanderv Our, former to equ Secretary. You know, stories are powerful. They help us make sense of things, to understand experiences. Story connect us to the people of our past while transcending generations. They help us process the meaning of life, and our stories are told through images and videos. 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We have a very special guest with us, and it's been great to have Donald Vandervar he former head of d EQ for the State of North Carolina, as someone who's been in the organ had been in the organization for many years prior to that, and we were talking about a variety of way the way the rules really have made it in encumbered businesses and individuals, and the way agencies kind of work in tandem. To to make it more difficult. But at the same time the legislature has authorized some bills to go through and look at hey, are these outdated or do they know rules that are no longer germane? Can we get rid of them? Now? What I was asking as we. Went to the break and didn't realize because it's just fun talking to Donald, is that you know when I look around, when any of you are driving around, especially at done at don and dusk, you see tons of deer out there, more than ever before. You see more wild Turkey than ever before. We got bare eastern and western North Carolina moving toward the center part of the state, bald Head Island down the coast kills about you know, five dozen deer every couple of years. Because there are so many of them, they. Send them to the food bank after they hunt them at night. So, Donald, what do you happening? It looks like things from an environmental everybody wants to be either an environmentalist or a conservationist. Everybody wants to see more wildlife. What's going on out there? In your opinion? Well, and as I was going to say, in my time, we had the marine fisheries under us, and what I came to learn in that context is that the science is actually pretty complicated. And so when when you a shortage of a certain species is perceived or is measured, you can take them, you can take some action. And the problem is is that the action is it's not the science isn't really that precise, so that if you take an action, you're not exactly sure what's going to happen. And it could be and I'm not saying that this is this is the case, but it could be that, you know, you all of a sudden have an explosion or an increase, a greater increase than you anticipated. And so the science has to be ongoing and it has to to check and say, you know, maybe we went too far, maybe we ought to open up the hunting season a little bit longer. So all I can tell you on that is that the science is a lot tougher than you might think, and it's also a lot less accurate. So that may some of your sort of heuristic observations may in fact be true, and they may be true because they're trying to dial in the level of protection needed. Uh yeah, and certainly that's antecdotal. Again, when I travel up and I can you know, when I was a kid, I never saw wild turkey even or deer, and now they're everywhere. I mean where I live on Oak Island. You know they're deer on the island. They swim across the canal that if you try to landscape, they will eat everything. These are like giant squirrels without the fuzzy tails. So they're doing it looks like they're doing quite well. And not just those species, but many others. There's an awareness about wildlife that here before I hadn't seen when I was a kid. Spending time. I'm in various parts of the state. So that being said again, that's where environment and wildlife and marine fisheries and all these people kind of coalesce because their goals should be the same. But more often than not, it gets expressed as egregious anti property rights. Where I live. I can't have a fire pit where I live. I can't put a tree in my front yard because that's right away where I live. I'm not allowed to put an ac or a heater in my first floor, not allowed to have controlled space there, even if it means stopping mold and mildew. So it looks like in my world at least it's very, very highly highly regulated. Well, and I could go back to the environment generally. When I first entered the field, I can tell you that there was there was a real need to start cleaning up our waterways, are air and some of the landfill situations. And we've been wildly successful in cleaning our land our sea. It's been a dramatic improvement. Now, you know, by analogy to what I said about the fisheries, you know, it may be and I think in some cases it is the case that that you know, the organizations have been sort of the victim of their own success, and in some cases you really do need to recalibrate where those requirements are. And I think going back the legislature's attempt to have these rules were visited makes all the sense in the world, and it's going to be a better situation for businesses and I think for the environment by clarifying a lot of these and getting rid of some of the rules that just don't make any sense anymore. Well, again, our guest has been Donald van Dervarr. He is a former head of the North Kline Department of Environmental Quality. Rose to the ranks the first scientist ever to hold that position and appreciate Donald, appreciate your service. I appreciate your perspective and look forward to having you on in the future. Okay, thanks very much, Jed, all the best. All right, if you're listening to this show, you know I try to keep up with all sorts of current events, and I know you do too. And you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple sources. Why well, because it's how you detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, and it's a website, and it combines news from around the world in one place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You can check it out at check dot ground, dot news slash pete. I put the link in the podcast description too. I started using ground News a few months ago and more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the left and the right. See for yourself check dot ground, dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the vantage plan to get unlimited access to every feature your subscription then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports ground news as they make the media landscape more transparent. There's many great things about talk radio and sitting behind a microphone. If you if that's something you love to do. I do. I love it because I have multiple attention span challenges that I love because I'm going from one subject to another. But the other is, you know, Rich Jenny used to say, what was great about being a stand up comic is that you walk out on stage and people just start clapping even though you've done nothing. They're just you're there. They appreciate you being there. This isn't a side This is inside stuff. When you're in talk radio and the microphones you know, in the break are dead, and then you know they'll. Come back and they'll say you're hot. That's just like the ultimate compliment, right, I appreciate that they're just the microphones are on. It's just funny. You won't find a humor in that. I do. Now, a couple of things that have happened that I that I haven't brought to your attention. The US inflation index has reportedly dropped to one point sixty six percent, far lower than the experts predicted yet again, and that. Is the is huge. That that is a massive drop. It's it's lower than percented, it's a it's actually dropped over half a percentage point just in the last nine days. This would be an unavoidable situation that the Fed, based on their own numbers, would have to drop interest rates all of their predictions in the spring about inflation and the tariffs and it being detrimental to the economy. This is just wrong, completely wrongheaded looking at things. They've missed the boat a thousand ways, and they're gonna have no choice. If they don't, then they will be seen as completely an overtly political because this is great story for the US, This is great story for the economy. This is just a great story. It's a great positive story. It's a notable decline. This, this will this will absolutely drive conversations about the drop. I mean, I'm sure the experts who this is this. The alarming thing to me about it is that the that there are experts that are going to be up said about this. Experts should be excited. I don't care what your political if if if you're in this country and things are going well. You should be happy about that. But which kind of takes me all the way back to the beginning of the show is that we find ourselves in a world where good news is seen as bad news, and it should be good news, regardless of who's in office. It should be if this is good, this is good for the American family. It's led mainly because food prices have dropped so much. This is this is going to So when you when you look at this in the abstract, when you when you look at and I can give you an example of what I'm talking about in pretty clear terms, if you were to go to real clear markets or real clear politics, or heck, let me just pull a random up real clear health. What what seems to drive print media even online media is this this hyper partisan look at my news is good or my news is bad because your guy or your gal are wacka doo's and especially here, so I'm looking at so the Epic Times, which tends to right how Trump's megabill would change medicaid, and then the New Republic is like their headline is. The undeserving poor deserve Medicaid. And then the next one is kind of a right lanning. It says Medicaid work requirements. Democrats want to infantilize the poor, and that's an allusion to the fact that many Democrats almost see the government is a cradle to grave, not a hand, a hand helping you up, but just a hand out. The next word, Christopher Jacobs at the Federal it's kind of right Lanning. Experts and advocates lied about Medicaid. That's just on real clear health. If you were looking at real clear markets, it's you know, the sheer human brutality. The New York Times, Laurence Summers over the New York Sizys the brutality of the big beautiful bill. Here's the reality. It's not brutal. It's not going to be brutal. And the way it's implemented. If it were brutal, it would be stopped, it would be changed, it would be altered. It's not brutal. The static way of looking if I lower taxes, oh, we're not going to get any more money, and it's gonna just kill the income revenue for the government. No, because reducing people's taxes means that they will do other things with their money. It's the general premise that people know what to do best with their own money, and in so doing create economic activity. It's a beautiful thing, which leads to more economic activity, which leads to more revenues. And almost every time in history where taxes have gone down, revenues have surged. Is there still a tax on SoC security? In Trump's bill? Where's the US economy heading? It's all about earnings, Powell's odd case for abundant reserves. These are all headlines. So the more we move down this track, the more people want to make things complicated, and the more you can make things complicated, the more confused things can seem that are very complex. So the goal of many and media on the right in left. Hey, look, I'm a conservative. I challenge that belief every day. I've been a conservative since I had to register for selective service under Reagan. I absolutely, steadfastly believe in a limited role of government. I'd like to see it contracted massively. I believe the states can do better left to their own devices, than the federal government ever can do. And I can look at the Great Society and see it's been an abject failure. It just has It's a b a month it's over overstaffed, underperforming, full of waste, fraud, abuse, and I absolutely want to see DOGE cuts. I want to see cuts, not just cuts in the rate of growth, but actual cuts. That's me. But these issues, the more complex they become, the more there is an attempt to overly simplify them and get you angry about them. They don't need to be overly complicated. People make them that way, and then they use that complexity to get you angry. The Inflation Reduction Act, it didn't reduce it inflation, it just didn't. The Affordable Care Act, it was a multi The bill was so large Pelosi had to say you had to pass it and find out what's in it. There was nothing about it that made things more affordable. So the big beautiful bill, at least it's got a name. That's not going to tell you. But I think it's going to be a lot of it, and there'll be a reconciliation bill in the fall. There'll be one in the spring, modifying, making it better. Here's a great idea. How about making an escape to a really special and secluded getaway in western North Carolina. Just a quick drive up the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together for a big old reunion. Cabins of Asheville has the ideal spot for you where you can reconnect with your loved ones and the things that truly matter. Nestled within the breath taking fourteen thousand acres of the Pisga National Forest, their cabins offer a serene escape in the heart of the Blue Ridge Mountains. Centrally located between Asheville and the entrance of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. It's the perfect balance of seclusion and proximity to all the local attractions with hot tubs, fireplaces, air conditioning, smart TVs, Wi Fi, grills, outdoor tables and your own private covered porch. Choose from thirteen cabins, six cottages, two villas, and a great lodge with eleven king sized bedrooms. Cabins of Ashville has the ideal spot for you for any occasion, and they have pet friendly accommodations. Call her text eight two eight, three, six, seven seventy sixty eight or check out all there is to offer at cabins Offashville dot com and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Appreciate you call it. I appreciate you waiting and appreciate your calling. Brian, Welcome to the show. What's on your Brain Today? Uh? Yeah, I was asking the gentlemen, how are the like common person? And I say, I make twenty thousan an hour, work forty hours a week. How is the big beautiful, beautiful bill say to me on taxes? So are you are you married? Are are you married or are you single? Well? No, I'm married. Okay, So your deduction goes up fifteen hundred dollars right there. So the amount of money you'd get. What what do you mean deduction? That means the standard deduction that's used by ninety percent of taxpayers who file goes up fifteen hundred. That's that's fifteen hundred dollars more that you don't have to pay taxes on. That's that's okay. So the so okay, say I made forty thousand dollars a year, so they take they reduced that fifteen hundred dollars and I pay taxes on on that amount. So whatever the standard deduction I don't have it right in front of me, but I know that yours, whatever your standard deduction is now increases by another fifteen hundred dollars, this shielded from taxes, and then coming on what rate, depending on what rate you and your wife fall under, probably in the twelve to fifteen I mean twelve percent, so they were getting ready to expire, and your new rates would have been fifteen percent in the lower brackets, twenty five percent, twenty those all get to be made permanent that at twelve percent instead of fifteen percent for that level, twenty two percent instead of twenty five percent, twenty four percent instead of twenty eight percent. So on the money that you do have to pay taxes on, the rates are going to be lower than they would have been. Okay, So so get like, give, give, give us give an example of a dollar amount. How much would I be saving? So if you if you had taxable income of let's just say thirty two thousand, and then you had a standard deduction, I can't remember, it is twelve thousand, five hundred, then you would subtract that off the thirty two thousand, so you would be paying tax on twenty nine thousand and five. Now that goes down to you'd only be paying taxes on twenty five hundred or twenty eight hundred, twenty eight thousand dollars sorry, and then depending on that, I think the bracket would be around twelve percent instead of it going to fifteen percent, you'd be paying twelve so you make another three percent that you get to keep in your pocket. Those are just two other things. Now, if you're in if you're making tips, if you're doing that kind of stuff, then twenty five thousand dollars of that is shielded from any kind of taxation, so you don't pay taxes on that. Also, if you have a passenger vehicle loan, then you get a deduction of up to ten thousand dollars on that, so you getta you get to take that off as well. So there's just even SUVs and minivans. So if you have a family and you're. Trying to get it's not really affecting my takeco pay though, it's not. That's just something when I'm fouling. That's not really no no no no no no. Well yeah, when you find but you get your deduction, so you get to keep more of what you earn. So yeah, you could if you depending on how you how you what you have taken out of your paycheck, Yeah, you could, you could have it. You could lower you could keep more of your paycheck so that when you file, you you pay less, I mean you pay less all off. Okay, all right, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Oh well, I appreciate your calling. So, uh, there's addition, so older citizens get something out. There's a six thousand dollars bonus deduction, uh for so Security. That's kind of that's gonna shield a lot of older folks that are you know, you're you're getting to. Take that out. That's just taxes and social Security. Understood, you paid taxes when you earn the money, and then when you're getting the money that you put into that back and remember your company has to match that. So when you get that money back, you're having. To pay taxes on it. And I've never understood that, but hopefully, look, I'm not gonna this is a step in the process. This is not the end all. But those what people forget is had this not passed, all of the Trump tax deductions or tax cuts would have been expired and we would have seen one of the largest tax increases in history. There would have gone back. It would have been a huge tax increase on where we found ourselves. So I appreciate the call it's not magic, but I completely get is this again what he called in And what I appreciate is it's complicated sounds it shouldn't be that complicated. And what I'm hoping as it gets done and finalized and that they'll be kind of a cheat sheet. For lack of a better word, here's what it means to you, because because right now people are screaming, the people that are propagandizing the bill are saying, look it does all these great things. Look at the greatest things in slice bread. Oh my gosh, I can't believe we ever lived without it. And the people who hate it like, oh my god, it's the end. It's dooming, gloom, armygeddness, It's time for megido and everything that's going to happen. The world is over, the Son's going to explode, and title ways are gonna be everywhere. That's the kind of rhetoric we see. And the truth of the matter is it is good for you. I mean for almost everyone. It's not a it's not a for the rich. It's for the common man and woman that's out there making ends meet. You're making if you're relying on tips, it's going to be better for you. But it's not the end all for everything. It's certainly not. By the way, calls always come first. I was going to get to one, by the way, about this war on motherhood. I've tried to get to it for two days. I'm not going to get to it in this in this last segment, but I do want to get to it. I do hope that at some point, you know, we already have, like I said, that gentleman to call before he's married, so his standard. Deduction will go up more. I do hope that we reach a point in society where the value of a of being a couple is more roundly made heroic. I mean, the enterprise, just like being an entrepreneur has a great. Deal of value to society. We are a society of innovators, we are society of entrepreneurs. I do hope we will value relationships more because I think that's that's one of the side effects of this fully independent, self realized kind of it's kind of a societal narcissism. That we just don't need people in our lives as much anymore. I am eternally hopeful that we reach a point where being with someone that the value of that is more recognized, that having kids is valued more than it is. We've seen a massive decline the average American you know, woman is having fewer and fewer and fewer kids. We're not even at replacement anymore. We're like at one point six and people being told don't have kids, it's bad for the environment, don't have kids, they're expensive. Divorces are you know, now seen as kind of a ride of passage from many. So we'll see if that changes. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my Patreon page or go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.