Cassie Clark & Andrew Dunn on Helene recovery (10-22-2024--Hour1)

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[00:00:28] According to ABC News, 26 people remain unaccounted for in North Carolina weeks after Hurricane Helene. Again, 26 people unaccounted for. That is down from last week's number of 92. Helene killed about 250 people throughout the Southeast. At least 95 of the fatalities were in North Carolina, according to government officials.

[00:00:54] Governor Roy Cooper called Helene the deadliest and most devastating storm in the state's history. A North Carolinian who lives down at the coast, but is from Appalachia, Western North Carolina, joins me now. She just got back from a visit to her her home land. Cassie Clark is the person behind the YouTube account and Twitter account called Dogwood Blooms.

[00:01:23] It's on Twitter. It's on YouTube, it's on YouTube, on Rumble, where the dogwood blooms. That's the name of the YouTube channel. And she celebrates everything that makes living in North Carolina so sweet. She joins me now. Cassie, how are you?

[00:01:37] I'm good. How are you?

[00:01:39] I am good. I'm good. I appreciate you making some time for us today. So you are originally from whereabouts? Was it Haywood County? Is that where you're from?

[00:01:50] So I was actually born in Wilmington, but my parents are from opposite ends of the state. And so when they separated, I spent my childhood bouncing back and forth from Canton, North Carolina, which is in Haywood County, and Wilmington.

[00:02:05] Gotcha. Okay. So you just went back up there. How long did you spend in the mountains over the last couple of days on your trip?

[00:02:14] So the first time that I went up, which was about two weeks ago, three weeks ago, I was up for one day. And then this time I was up for two days. And yeah, it was heart-wrenching.

[00:02:27] So where all did you go?

[00:02:29] So we went to Canton. We went to Caruso. We went up Sunburst. We went to Leicester. We went to Sandy Mush. We went to Swananoa. We went to Black Mountain. We were on the outskirts of Asheville. So we really just kind of went around a little bit of everywhere.

[00:02:49] So you could tell Cassie's from the area because she called it Lester, not Leicester. Yes.

[00:02:56] Yeah. So all right. So you mentioned Caruso in there. And if I recall correctly, it was only a couple of years ago that they were obliterated by another flood.

[00:03:08] So how was that?

[00:03:11] So Caruso, I expected it to be a lot worse than what it was. Don't get me wrong. They got hit really hard.

[00:03:17] But I think that because the previous storm came through, there was already massive damage that had not been, you know, fully recovered yet.

[00:03:27] So I feel like they didn't get it quite as bad this time just because of that. And don't get me wrong. The roads washed out. There's still houses that were severely damaged. But I feel like 2021 was probably worse than this go-round.

[00:03:43] Well, yeah, I mean, I wonder if the damage would have been more extensive if the structures were still there, you know?

[00:03:51] Oh, probably, definitely.

[00:03:52] Yeah. All right. So what did you do? What was the purpose of the trip?

[00:03:59] So both times I went to deliver supplies and volunteer and just help where I could. I've been blessed in that I have a very loyal, wonderful following over on X.

[00:04:12] And so they gave me thousands of dollars to be able to buy supplies and run them back home. And so that's what I did.

[00:04:19] Right. And I saw that you were giving out gift cards to people. So obviously you're going up and you're talking to folks and getting their stories. So, like, who did you meet?

[00:04:32] So we, in Crusoe, we met this very sweet woman at a church up there and I gave her some gift cards and we were talking and, you know, she was so upset that, you know, she would cry.

[00:04:47] Like, she couldn't even get through the story. She would just tear up.

[00:04:52] And we talked to somebody in Leicester and this was the first time. It was a guy named Bub.

[00:04:56] And he told a story about one of the guys who comes to his church.

[00:05:01] And he said that the guy heard a loud noise and he walked up on his, like, out on his porch to see what was going on.

[00:05:08] And he looked over and there was a house up above his that had a family living in it and that they came out on the porch and they were trying to run.

[00:05:18] And then a mudslide happened and that it just obliterated the house, that the whole family was gone.

[00:05:25] And, um, we saw people who were living in tents.

[00:05:28] Um, I actually ended up giving one guy, like, the bulk of my gift cards because it just, it broke my heart to actually see it.

[00:05:36] Like, I'd heard rumors, I'd seen pictures, but there's nothing like seeing it in person for it to really get to you.

[00:05:44] And so I gave him all that I had. And, yeah, I mean, the stories are, they're horrific.

[00:05:51] So, did you talk to anybody that were in the tents, that were living or sleeping overnight in the tents?

[00:05:57] Um, so, I hate to say yes. I met some of them. We didn't really talk about why they were living in tents.

[00:06:06] Mm-hmm.

[00:06:36] And they often leave everything. Um, so I kind of feel like that's the story behind that.

[00:06:41] There's also, of course, you know this, you lived in Western North Carolina for a while.

[00:06:45] Um, our culture is very based on self-sufficiency.

[00:06:50] And so where people can be self-sufficient, they are. A lot of people are staying in tents near their homes so that they can work on their house every second that they can.

[00:06:59] Right. And that's what I had heard. Um, because, I mean, if the nearest shelter is four or five miles away and there isn't any way to easily get back and forth over that four or five miles,

[00:07:12] you lose a lot of daylight every single day just getting back and forth.

[00:07:17] And so, like, yes, it was their choice, but it's also out of necessity to a large degree.

[00:07:23] Yeah. Um, so did you, what has been the reaction from the people that you spoke with, at least, um,

[00:07:31] about the level of assistance that they've been getting or not getting for that matter?

[00:07:38] It's really been a mixed bag, which is kind of confusing to me.

[00:07:42] It seems like there were more people in Buncombe County who were happy with FEMA relief and government assistance that's going on there.

[00:07:52] Um, in Haywood County, there was a lot less of that.

[00:07:55] I'm not sure if that means that Buncombe County is getting more resources or, or what's going on.

[00:08:02] Um, but there was definitely mixed responses about that.

[00:08:07] Like some people are over the moon happy.

[00:08:09] Other people are, are angry and I can understand why.

[00:08:14] Um, all right.

[00:08:15] And so, uh, did you, uh, do you have any recommendations?

[00:08:18] Are you directing people?

[00:08:19] I know you yourself went and, uh, and ran donations up to them.

[00:08:23] Um, uh, did you see any relief organizations that you want to direct people towards that you thought were doing a good job?

[00:08:30] Yeah, there's a ton.

[00:08:32] So Samaritan's Purse, I've heard so many good things about them, not only online, but from people who are in the mountains living there right now.

[00:08:43] Everybody is so proud of them.

[00:08:45] And I would also highly recommend churches.

[00:08:48] Um, I know a lot of places right now are filling up on donations.

[00:08:52] They're, it's getting to the point where they don't have anywhere to store them, which is really sad because this is going to be an ongoing thing where donations are going to be needed again.

[00:09:02] Um, I think that sending funds to local churches is a phenomenal idea.

[00:09:07] Um, the woman who lived up the street from me for my whole life, um, she had a mudslide in her backyard.

[00:09:16] It took out her porch.

[00:09:17] A log came flying through her kitchen door.

[00:09:20] It brought in mud and flood water.

[00:09:23] Um, the church is the one who came up there and cleaned everything out.

[00:09:27] And so these local churches are, they're going out, they're buying lumber.

[00:09:31] They're going out to people who need help and they're doing the work.

[00:09:35] And so I think that that's a great place to, to send funds.

[00:09:39] Another thing that is a wonderful idea is, like I said, there's a lot of small farms in Western North Carolina and those farms really need help right now, whether it be hay or whether it be fence posting.

[00:09:51] And those supplies are running out very fast and those are definitely needed.

[00:09:56] Um, anything else you want to add before we let you run that you think is important or interesting to note here?

[00:10:02] I don't think so.

[00:10:03] I really just think that I've seen a lot that recovery is going great and, and all of these things.

[00:10:09] And I don't disagree.

[00:10:10] I think that it's wonderful that people are coming up and they're volunteering and, and that everybody is joining together.

[00:10:16] But recovery is far from over.

[00:10:20] When I went through Swannanoa, it literally looked like a bomb had gone off.

[00:10:24] We're talking about the road being completely down, houses that look like they imploded.

[00:10:29] This is not going to be over in just a few weeks.

[00:10:32] This is going to be a marathon and Western North Carolina is going to continue to need our support for a very long time.

[00:10:39] Yeah, completely agree.

[00:10:41] Cassie Clark, thank you for what you do.

[00:10:44] You know, I always quote the Mr. Rogers line about look for the helpers in times of disaster.

[00:10:50] It renews your, your faith in humanity.

[00:10:53] So thank you for being one of the helpers and you can find her on Twitter, formerly known as X, Dogwood Blooms at Dogwood Blooms and her YouTube channel, Rumble, I believe also where the Dogwood Blooms as well.

[00:11:07] Cassie, thanks so much for your time.

[00:11:08] I appreciate it.

[00:11:09] Oh, thank you for having me.

[00:11:11] It was an honor.

[00:11:12] Absolutely.

[00:11:12] Take care.

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[00:12:15] Cassie Clark from Dogwood Blooms.

[00:12:19] Well, that's her name on Twitter slash X.

[00:12:23] Also on the YouTube, Where the Dogwoods Bloom.

[00:12:26] And generally her stuff is all about, you know, just like North Carolina related content.

[00:12:34] And, but I did see that she had gone up to the mountains and, you know, she had posted a bunch of video and pictures and stuff.

[00:12:43] And so I said, well, you've been up there.

[00:12:44] Tell me what you saw.

[00:12:46] You know, I would also throw out another organization.

[00:12:50] We've had them on the program a couple times so far.

[00:12:53] They're based in Swannanoa.

[00:12:56] Heartswithhands.org.

[00:12:58] They're taking monetary donations.

[00:13:01] And they've got deals with, you know, all sorts of suppliers and retailers and stuff.

[00:13:10] And so they can get quick and cheaper access to a lot of the supplies that are needed.

[00:13:16] But they're also, if you want to go up and volunteer your time to help, they have a sign up there for people if they want to just volunteer and go up.

[00:13:27] They'll coordinate that for you as well.

[00:13:29] So they're also in need of cold weather stuff.

[00:13:34] It's already gotten below zero or sorry.

[00:13:38] Well, below freezing.

[00:13:39] So I guess it's below zero Celsius.

[00:13:44] But it was below 32 degrees Fahrenheit.

[00:13:50] And stuff like, they call them buddy heaters.

[00:13:53] They're real small heaters.

[00:13:57] Sleeping bags and blankets and coats.

[00:14:00] So there's a need for that kind of stuff still.

[00:14:03] So you can go to the website heartswithhands.org.

[00:14:08] After the news, I'm going to talk with Andrew Dunn.

[00:14:10] And he has worked in North Carolina politics.

[00:14:15] He used to work for former Lieutenant Governor Dan Forrest.

[00:14:19] And he wrote a big piece over at his website called Longleaf Politics.

[00:14:25] And he outlines what the General Assembly needs to do for Hurricane Helene relief.

[00:14:35] And it's pretty detailed.

[00:14:37] It's a very lengthy post.

[00:14:39] We're not going to go into all of the details.

[00:14:42] But he gives, you know, four things that the General Assembly should fund when they come back into session, which I believe is this week.

[00:14:50] They're coming back in this week to do some emergency funding.

[00:14:54] And he says there are four things that they should fund, which would be bonus pay for search and rescue teams as well as first responders.

[00:15:04] A state-run equivalent of a paycheck protection program for people that don't have work.

[00:15:10] Much like in COVID, they lost their jobs through no fault of their own.

[00:15:14] Temporary hires in the unemployment office to help with the, you know, with the growing backlog of unemployment claims.

[00:15:23] And provide some watchdog help for insurance claim payouts to help guard against insurance companies that aren't paying out.

[00:15:35] So, I would also maybe add to that FEMA.

[00:15:39] Because I'm now getting more and more reports of people getting rejected for FEMA assistance.

[00:15:45] Which I'm, you know, I'm at a loss to explain why.

[00:15:49] I just keep telling people, go and try to talk to somebody on site versus using the app.

[00:15:54] Because what we were told by Mark Starling up there, radio guy in Asheville, that the app is denying people.

[00:16:02] But if you go in person, you're getting approved.

[00:16:05] So, go and talk to somebody in person.

[00:16:08] I want to welcome to the program Andrew Dunn.

[00:16:11] He has spent years working in media and politics in North Carolina.

[00:16:15] You can read his work at Longleaf Politics.

[00:16:18] Longleafpol.com is the substack.

[00:16:21] Andrew, welcome back to the show.

[00:16:22] How are you?

[00:16:23] I'm doing great.

[00:16:25] It's good to be with you.

[00:16:26] Yes, sir.

[00:16:26] Thanks for making time for us.

[00:16:27] I appreciate it.

[00:16:28] I've read through the piece that you've got posted.

[00:16:30] It's a very lengthy piece at Longleaf Politics called the General Assembly for Hurricane Helene Recovery.

[00:16:38] And they are slated to come back into session right this week.

[00:16:41] Is that right?

[00:16:43] Yeah, that's correct.

[00:16:44] It should be tomorrow.

[00:16:45] Okay.

[00:16:46] And so, I hit the four things before we brought you on.

[00:16:50] The four things that the General Assembly should fund this week.

[00:16:54] And I guess those kind of are in a bucket of short-term relief efforts for Western North Carolina.

[00:16:59] And then you've got, what is it, eight long-term things that the legislature should look to do.

[00:17:08] So, I mean, we can run through all eight if we've got the time.

[00:17:12] But I guess I should ask, like, which ones do you think are the most important in the list that the General Assembly should look to do for the long term?

[00:17:22] Got it.

[00:17:23] Got it.

[00:17:23] Yeah, well, we can start with the short-term stuff first.

[00:17:26] Okay.

[00:17:26] So, you know, how the General Assembly usually does this is they do four to five different funding packages in terms of storm recovery.

[00:17:35] So, there was a first one about two weeks ago that was really just about getting the money in so that North Carolina could accept federal money to help out.

[00:17:44] So, this is the first time the General Assembly is really having the chance to pause for a second and think, well, where can we best put the money to help people recover?

[00:17:54] So, in the short term, I think it's mostly going to look like staffing back up the Recovery and Resiliency Office.

[00:18:01] But I want to make sure, you know, my opinion is that the state can't really follow the same old playbook, that they need to try some new and innovative things.

[00:18:10] And probably the big one that's on my mind right now is some sort of paycheck protection program.

[00:18:15] You know, you think about the North Carolina mountains, so dependent on tourism dollars.

[00:18:20] And now it's been all but wiped out this year.

[00:18:24] I mean, even areas where there wasn't a whole lot of damage or not getting the visitors that they were expecting, understandably so.

[00:18:32] There were some problems at the federal level with the paycheck protection program in terms of the scope kind of creeping out over time.

[00:18:39] But the idea, I think, is a good one.

[00:18:42] I'm hoping that the state can do something around there.

[00:18:46] But then long term, I mean, really my perspective is the General Assembly needs to take its oversight responsibilities seriously and really get some answers on, you know, why does North Carolina do storm response the way it does?

[00:18:59] Why have there been so many problems?

[00:19:02] Why is there such chain of command issues between federal, state, local?

[00:19:07] And how can we finally get this right for the next time?

[00:19:10] I mean, we've been talking for years about how poor North Carolina's disaster response has been.

[00:19:17] You know, I'm thinking going back to 2016 with Matthew and 2018 with Florence, and it still hasn't been fixed.

[00:19:24] Right. Yeah.

[00:19:25] I remember.

[00:19:26] I mean, are there people still from Matthew that still don't have their homes built?

[00:19:31] I don't even know anymore.

[00:19:32] It's been that long.

[00:19:34] And that was a storm that hit right before the 2016 election.

[00:19:37] Pat McCrory was governor.

[00:19:39] And then Cooper took over.

[00:19:41] And he was, you know, criticized for years after the fact because South Carolina was able to rebuild all of their affected homes.

[00:19:49] And North Carolina had like two homes rebuilt.

[00:19:53] So is that a Cooper problem or is that a structural problem?

[00:19:58] It's hard to say.

[00:19:59] I mean, Cooper's been in office now for almost eight years.

[00:20:02] And all of these disasters that we're talking about right now all fall squarely under the Cooper administration.

[00:20:10] He's really the only one you can look to.

[00:20:12] I mean, this is one of the primary roles of government is to protect the people.

[00:20:18] So I'm hoping that the General Assembly will get some direct answers from Cooper himself.

[00:20:23] One of the things you mentioned and you put the caveat in a couple of times, which is like you don't want this to be a political deal, which I mean, I applaud the optimism.

[00:20:36] But I don't know if they could do that.

[00:20:39] But I had the same sort of view on the COVID response, that there has to be an after action report that identifies not just the stuff that worked.

[00:20:48] We hear about the stuff that is working all the time.

[00:20:51] That's the stuff that they tout at the press conferences.

[00:20:53] I want to know what did not work.

[00:20:56] Where did we get things wrong?

[00:20:57] Because otherwise, we're not going to be able to adapt and make those changes.

[00:21:01] And I guess, I don't know, given what I saw with the COVID response, I don't know if our General Assembly or the administration or the future administration, if it's a Stein administration, I don't know if there's going to be an appetite to do that.

[00:21:15] Do you?

[00:21:17] I'm not sure.

[00:21:18] I hope there is.

[00:21:19] I mean, you're right.

[00:21:20] There really hasn't been any sort of post-mortem analysis of the COVID response.

[00:21:26] That shift has probably sailed at this point.

[00:21:29] But I think in terms of the storm disaster response, there absolutely needs to be one.

[00:21:36] Now, the General Assembly has in the last year or two set up a special investigatory committee that has staff, that has the resources to do something like this.

[00:21:47] They've done some good work so far in kind of watchdogging the unemployment system and identifying some issues there.

[00:21:54] I'm hoping that committee will have the ability to really get to the bottom of some of these things.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:22:01] You also referenced the communication, well, not just in the way the governor communicates to the public, which you noted, and it didn't even occur to me.

[00:22:11] So the difference, though, between the COVID comms plan versus this, what we're seeing now, and they're just night and day differences.

[00:22:20] And I didn't even realize it until I read your piece, but also the importance of communications just generally, that, like, particularly the cell phone towers.

[00:22:31] You know, we couldn't get any information.

[00:22:33] People couldn't dispatch to the affected areas.

[00:22:36] And so there needs to be, I think, right, some sort of a reevaluation about the critical nature of the cell phone towers and communications.

[00:22:45] And I don't know if there's a role for the state to even do something along those lines.

[00:22:52] I think there absolutely is.

[00:22:54] I mean, I consider cellular networks to be critical infrastructure at this point, you know, especially when you're looking at Western North Carolina with so many remote areas.

[00:23:05] Not being able to get any sort of communication out is a huge deal.

[00:23:08] Now, I know the emergency management department does have some mobile cell tower capacity.

[00:23:14] I have no idea how much they have, where they are, et cetera.

[00:23:19] And the other thing is, you know, private citizens were bringing in Starlink systems into Western North Carolina.

[00:23:25] And that was really a godsend for a lot of people to finally be able to get in touch with loved ones or emergency responders.

[00:23:31] And I don't have any indication that the state of North Carolina has a contract with Starlink, has those systems.

[00:23:39] But if they don't, they absolutely should as soon as possible.

[00:23:42] Yeah.

[00:23:43] Andrew Dunn, anything else you want to add here that you think is important or interesting besides telling people to read the rest of this piece because you've got a lot of good tips in here?

[00:23:52] Well, I hope people will go read it.

[00:23:54] Longleaf Politics or longleafpol.com.

[00:23:57] But really, my main message is, you know, the General Assembly, it doesn't have to be a political thing.

[00:24:03] It's a good government thing.

[00:24:04] You know, disaster response is one of the core facets, the core duties of government.

[00:24:09] And we need somebody who's going to take this seriously and get some answers.

[00:24:14] Yeah, it should be sort of a plug and play operation where it doesn't even matter who the governor is, right?

[00:24:19] There needs to be a system there to stand up no matter who's in the office at any given time.

[00:24:26] People need to know what they're doing.

[00:24:28] And it shouldn't all fall based on, you know, who we elect as the governor.

[00:24:32] It seems to me.

[00:24:33] Exactly.

[00:24:33] Yeah.

[00:24:34] Hey, Andrew, good to hear from you.

[00:24:36] Thanks so much for joining me.

[00:24:37] I do appreciate it.

[00:24:38] I encourage people to get his newsletter, Longleaf Politics.

[00:24:41] It's on Substack, longleafpol.com.

[00:24:44] Thank you, sir, for your time.

[00:24:45] I appreciate it.

[00:24:46] Thank you.

[00:24:47] All right.

[00:24:47] Take care.

[00:24:48] That is Andrew Dunn.

[00:24:51] Let me hit some of these eight long-term solutions that are being recommended by Andrew Dunn.

[00:24:59] Again, he used to work in politics in the lieutenant governor's office and worked on campaigns.

[00:25:05] He worked in the media.

[00:25:08] He says, long-term, we need a full assessment of what went right and wrong with Helene so

[00:25:13] that we can be better prepared for the next storm that is sure to come.

[00:25:17] General Assembly committees have the ability to hold hearings and subpoena witnesses, even

[00:25:21] the governor, and they have only just started to use this power effectively.

[00:25:27] He said the hearing should not be political in nature, so hold them after the election,

[00:25:33] but we shouldn't wait until a new administration takes office on January 1.

[00:25:38] Number two, better coordinate immediate response.

[00:25:42] Number three, have a communications plan.

[00:25:46] He talked about how Cooper was on TV like every single day during COVID, but that hasn't been

[00:25:52] the case with this.

[00:25:54] And, you know, why?

[00:25:57] There's no public dashboard.

[00:25:59] There's no color-coded maps.

[00:26:01] There's no daily briefing, right?

[00:26:03] So if you had this template from COVID, why didn't you use it for this?

[00:26:12] He asks, what is the point of ready.gov?

[00:26:16] The website.

[00:26:18] Like, what's the point of that website if it's not acting as a clearinghouse for all of this

[00:26:24] information?

[00:26:26] Number five, how to better coordinate the philanthropic response, right?

[00:26:32] Private sector, nonprofits that have been racing to the scene and delivering donations and doing

[00:26:39] search and rescue.

[00:26:40] There's got to be a better way to coordinate all of those efforts.

[00:26:43] Number six, should evacuations have been ordered earlier?

[00:26:50] Are local governments in Western North Carolina prepared enough for emergencies?

[00:26:58] And the people of Western North Carolina have been for decades under the impression that Raleigh

[00:27:06] and state government doesn't believe Western North Carolina exists at all.

[00:27:10] And unfortunately, this, I would submit, has kind of led, it has fed that thinking.

[00:27:18] Rightly or wrongly, it has fed that line of thinking.

[00:27:21] All right, that'll do it for this episode.

[00:27:23] Thank you so much for listening.

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[00:27:38] Again, thank you so much for listening and don't break anything while I'm gone.