Building codes are putting Helene victims in danger (12-03-2024--Hour1)

[00:00:04] What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to 3 on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to thepetekalendershow.com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button, get every episode for free, write to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support.

[00:00:28] So let's get a status update on what's going on in Western North Carolina. You've probably been keeping up with some of the developments. Obviously, it's gotten cold. It has snowed. By the way, one of the often overlooked aspects of living in the Blue Ridge Mountains, bears. Bears are attracted to food.

[00:00:53] And when you are living in a tent next to your demolished house, you tend to have food around the premises because, you know, you need the food to survive. And so bears are now being attracted to the areas where the survivors are camped out in tents.

[00:01:15] So what about the donations of RVs or structures even, these little sheds that are being built and transported up to the mountains? Well, funny you should ask. Those are not habitable dwellings.

[00:01:41] Just as the government is here to help. They also have a whole lot of regulations, a bunch of rules.

[00:01:54] And all of these rules are written for a time when you're not living in a tent after your home was wiped off the face of the earth due to a rock slide or landslide.

[00:02:07] And so there are some complications going on, let's say, where people have access to shelter, something a little sturdier than a tent.

[00:02:20] But they can't actually use them because building code.

[00:02:29] Haywood County Commissioner, so Haywood County is right next to, it's right, it's right next door to basically to Buncombe County.

[00:02:39] Home to, remember the Canton Mill. You heard stories about the mill closure. I guess it's been now a year, maybe two.

[00:02:48] I think a year. The big mill that's right in the heart of the downtown, it closed down finally.

[00:02:55] And so there was a lot of media coverage about Canton. You've also got Clyde.

[00:03:00] That's not a person. Although I'm sure there are people named Clyde that live in Haywood County, but it's a town.

[00:03:07] So, Waynesville as well. So Haywood County Commissioner Terry Ramey.

[00:03:14] This is according to a piece by Vicki Hyatt at themountaineer.com, the Haywood Mountaineer.

[00:03:20] The Haywood County Commissioner Terry Ramey is on a crusade to find warm places for flood survivors to stay this winter,

[00:03:30] even if it means suspending housing rules designed to ensure safety.

[00:03:38] Okay, so let's just take a step back for a second.

[00:03:41] And I said this same sort of thing in the immediate aftermath of the arrival of Hurricane Helene into Western North Carolina.

[00:03:51] What are your first order needs?

[00:03:57] Address those first, obviously. Their first order needs.

[00:04:02] Water, because you cannot survive for more than three days without water.

[00:04:07] Food, medicines, especially if you are on a daily regimen that you take to stay alive.

[00:04:14] You need those meds.

[00:04:18] But shelter, clothing, right?

[00:04:21] These are the first order needs.

[00:04:25] And water seems to be now not so much of an issue.

[00:04:30] You also have food because of all of the donations that have come in.

[00:04:34] The water and food seem to be taken care of.

[00:04:38] The reports I've heard now for a couple weeks are that they've got so much water.

[00:04:44] So that's good.

[00:04:45] If you donated, thank you. That's awesome.

[00:04:49] But then they've also got needs for fuel.

[00:04:51] And that's becoming more and more a priority because it's wintertime.

[00:04:55] It's cold now.

[00:04:57] And they've already gotten snow up there every single night.

[00:05:01] It's below freezing.

[00:05:02] And so you've got to try to not just heat your tent or your shelter.

[00:05:07] You're trying to also use the gas to fuel a vehicle.

[00:05:11] Maybe you need to drive that vehicle into town to get fuel so you can come back, run a generator to keep a refrigerator going so your insulin doesn't spoil.

[00:05:22] And that's what you spend your day doing.

[00:05:24] Right?

[00:05:25] This is one of the things in developing nations.

[00:05:33] This intersects with so many policy and larger topics.

[00:05:38] You know, energy production, for example.

[00:05:41] Clean, cheap energy.

[00:05:44] I say clean as in not, you know, toxic and, you know, you're not swimming in pools of oil.

[00:05:51] But fossil fuels, cheap energy, lifts societies up out of abject poverty.

[00:05:59] Because when you don't have energy, you can't get to a place that has the water.

[00:06:07] Maybe the closest water source is far away.

[00:06:09] I used to read articles about people living in Africa who would walk three, four, five miles each way to go to a local water source.

[00:06:20] And then carry that water back.

[00:06:22] And that's basically like half your day.

[00:06:26] Every day.

[00:06:27] Just to get water for your daily needs.

[00:06:31] And so what you have lost then is the opportunity to do anything else.

[00:06:36] To help improve your station, to help improve your quality of life.

[00:06:41] Because you spend so much time getting a basic necessity.

[00:06:44] And that's what Western North Carolina, a lot of people living there, were reduced to.

[00:06:49] Third world conditions.

[00:06:53] And getting these basics, these first order needs addressed, helps then make room in the daily schedule for, you know, fixing and cleaning and improving after that.

[00:07:08] Shelter is a very big one.

[00:07:10] And you've heard about the vouchers that FEMA is handing out.

[00:07:14] Oh, here's a housing voucher.

[00:07:16] Well, the housing voucher is for a hotel.

[00:07:19] Hotel.

[00:07:20] Okay.

[00:07:21] Well, I can tell you in Haywood County, there aren't a lot of hotels near these communities.

[00:07:29] And by not a lot, I mean zero.

[00:07:32] And so you're having to, I mean, some people were getting in the area, some people were getting housing vouchers for Charlotte.

[00:07:39] Like you're going to drive back and forth to and from Charlotte every single day to sleep in a hotel.

[00:07:46] Meanwhile, all of your possessions are on a riverbank someplace strewn out all over the place in muck and debris.

[00:07:53] And so after you leave, the looters come.

[00:07:58] And they steal everything of value.

[00:08:02] Kind of makes it harder to rebuild.

[00:08:04] So this County Commissioner, Terry Ramey, has been trying to suspend housing rules designed to ensure safety.

[00:08:15] Which again, under normal circumstances, I understand why the rules get put in place.

[00:08:21] But these are not normal circumstances any longer.

[00:08:25] They literally are sleeping in shacks and tents.

[00:08:30] That's their only shelter from the elements.

[00:08:32] So maybe, just spitballing here, maybe we suspend all of the building codes for the disaster areas.

[00:08:43] You can put a sunset on it three months, six months, whatever.

[00:08:48] But it seems like that's the pretty obvious fix here.

[00:08:52] Because these safety rules are now creating unsafe conditions.

[00:08:57] People living in freezing temperatures subjected to bear attacks and looting.

[00:09:04] What's the higher order?

[00:09:07] It's shelter.

[00:09:09] It's shelter.

[00:09:12] Now, according to the report at the Mountaineer, it's a thorny issue.

[00:09:15] But he has determined something needs to happen quickly.

[00:09:19] This was an article from November 30th, by the way.

[00:09:22] And people started identifying this issue at the beginning of November.

[00:09:27] November 3rd, I believe, was the first county commissioner's meeting when this was discussed.

[00:09:32] So it's now been a month.

[00:09:35] And the conditions are getting worse.

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[00:10:39] I got a message here from Michael on Twitter who says,

[00:10:44] As a building inspector myself, I agree that some standards need to be overlooked to provide housing for people affected by the hurricane.

[00:10:53] Life safety issues need to be strictly enforced for electricity, natural gas or propane use, egress issues, etc.

[00:11:01] Someone staying temporarily in a 12 by 12 utility shed is better than them staying in a Walmart tent.

[00:11:10] Right.

[00:11:10] I mean, you don't want...

[00:11:11] We hear about these stories.

[00:11:13] I've covered these stories for years.

[00:11:16] You know, people don't have heat, so they bring in, you know, a charcoal grill into the apartment, and they use it to heat the space, and then they all die of carbon monoxide poisoning.

[00:11:26] We don't want that to happen, but a shed is a better shelter than a tent.

[00:11:33] And if you're going to try to heat your tent with these little buddy heaters and stuff, then you're going to heat your shed with that too.

[00:11:43] So, like, reasonable minds have to win on this.

[00:11:50] Common sense has to win out on this.

[00:11:53] Terry Ramey is a Haywood County commissioner.

[00:11:55] He said,

[00:11:57] I just want people warm.

[00:11:58] I don't care what it takes.

[00:12:00] We've never had anything like this thing, Helene, and I'm trying to work with the state to try to get it worked out.

[00:12:06] I was elected to look after these people.

[00:12:09] FEMA has had two months to get trailers in here, and they haven't done it.

[00:12:13] There's a man and his two boys, one eight and one ten, who are sleeping under a tarp next to their flooded home.

[00:12:21] We're better than this.

[00:12:22] I'm really worried about the kids and the old people.

[00:12:26] The problem is about to compound, writes Vicki Hyatt at the Mountaineer.

[00:12:30] FEMA temporary housing vouchers for rent and motel stays are about to run out.

[00:12:36] At a recent meeting, county commissioners were told that 150 Haywood families participated in the program, one that would give them time to figure out long-term solutions.

[00:12:45] That program was set to expire today, but has now been pushed back till December 12th.

[00:12:53] In instances like this, FEMA has temporary living units that it can bring into an area.

[00:12:57] It's been two months since the flood.

[00:13:00] Haywood has received two units.

[00:13:04] Two.

[00:13:05] All right.

[00:13:05] Hey, real quick.

[00:13:06] If you would like to get your product or service in front of about 10,000 people multiple times a day, send me an email at Pete at the Pete calendar show dot com and ask me about advertising.

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[00:13:27] Pete at the Pete calendar show dot com and I can show you how it works.

[00:13:31] Run the numbers with you.

[00:13:32] Again, that's Pete at the Pete calendar show dot com.

[00:13:36] All right.

[00:13:37] So let me pick up the story again.

[00:13:38] This is at the mountaineer dot com story by Vicki Hyatt.

[00:13:43] This was from November 30th.

[00:13:46] Headline commissioner lobbies to slash red tape on flood temporary housing.

[00:13:53] And the focus is Haywood County Commissioner Terry Ramey.

[00:13:56] He has worked with Canton Wesleyan Church.

[00:13:59] Canton is a town in Haywood County where members and volunteers worked with a contractor who scoured the state building codes and came up with a temporary building designed call design called the rustic cabin.

[00:14:14] The units had a door, a window, an external heating source, safety features and were insulated.

[00:14:23] Five units were crafted mostly as sleeping units where people could still remain on their property.

[00:14:29] This is according to Pastor Amanda Fowler.

[00:14:32] The structures were intended to hold beds where those in the cold could stay warm at night and when the temperatures dipped too low for comfort.

[00:14:39] Right.

[00:14:40] Again, this is just for sleeping.

[00:14:45] We saw the need for housing for some people in tents who literally had nothing.

[00:14:49] We were trying to meet the need, she said.

[00:14:51] Some tent residents were offered FEMA housing vouchers but found the nearest available motel was out of state.

[00:15:00] Those building the rustic cabins expected the structures would fall under the primitive shelter codes.

[00:15:07] Instead, the small buildings were to be designated as dwellings.

[00:15:12] And all dwellings have to meet residential building codes.

[00:15:17] Before receiving county pushback, the group had already built five of these units.

[00:15:23] But now they have no way to use them for the intended purpose.

[00:15:27] Haywood County Development Services Director Garron Braddish said he had never seen the design of the structure

[00:15:35] but that the building codes require tiny homes to include a bathroom.

[00:15:41] Ramey wants, the county commissioner, Ramey, wants the rules suspended during the flood emergency.

[00:15:47] Because, obviously.

[00:15:51] Obviously.

[00:15:53] The rules need to be suspended.

[00:15:55] Obviously.

[00:15:59] Ramey was contacted by New Covenant Church Pastor Blake Stanbury.

[00:16:03] Wondering if Ramey had land to put a fifth wheel camper on for a flood victim.

[00:16:09] Hey, you got some property?

[00:16:11] We got this camper.

[00:16:12] We have a flood victim.

[00:16:13] Can we put it on your property?

[00:16:14] The person, the victim, had five grandchildren, two daughters living with her before the flood.

[00:16:19] But Ramey ran up against a town rule forbidding RVs and campers unless they are placed on the same property that was flooded.

[00:16:32] So, you've got some property and I've got a camper and that person needs a camper because they're, you know, homeless.

[00:16:42] So, can I put it on your property?

[00:16:45] The town says no because it's not the flooded property.

[00:16:51] So, if you try to put it on the flooded property, then what happens?

[00:16:54] Oh, you can't put it on the flooded property because that's in a flood plain.

[00:16:59] These volunteer people were even going to pay to have water and sewer hooked up.

[00:17:04] Ramey said, quote, in my opinion, whoever is controlling this don't care about our people.

[00:17:09] That's what started every bit of this.

[00:17:12] Talking about his campaign now.

[00:17:14] Not his political campaign, but his campaign to get these rules lifted temporarily.

[00:17:23] He said, they keep coming up with different excuses, but the FEMA vouchers are going to run out.

[00:17:28] If they're not, if they've not been able to get it done in two months, how can we get it done overnight?

[00:17:34] It's going to hit 16 degrees.

[00:17:35] A camper is the coldest thing in the world.

[00:17:37] You'll need an awful lot of propane.

[00:17:39] One of these tiny sheds.

[00:17:40] Well, you can heat that with a candle.

[00:17:45] This is what, by the way, Marcus Limonis, the CEO of Camping World and was the star of that CNBC TV show, The Prophet, where he'd go in and help businesses and stuff.

[00:17:58] But this is one of the things he was asked by a user on Twitter.

[00:18:05] He said, hey, can we buy some of your old inventory?

[00:18:09] We'll do, you know, crowd-sourced fundraisers and stuff, crowdfunding for buying some of your trailers.

[00:18:18] And Limonis said, like, this is a problem because these are just RV campers.

[00:18:22] And if you don't have heat sources, then, like, you're just in a tin can.

[00:18:26] It's super cold.

[00:18:29] So an update, then.

[00:18:31] This was from a story either yesterday or today, I think.

[00:18:34] I think it was today.

[00:18:35] Vicki Hyatt at the Mountaineer.

[00:18:38] As Haywood County flood survivors wait and wait for temporary FEMA housing units, winter has arrived.

[00:18:45] And those unwilling to leave their property are living in flood-damaged homes, cars, and tents.

[00:18:51] Haywood County officials are being hammered on social media for not taking action to get flood survivors into a safe, warm place.

[00:18:58] As temperatures dip into the teens.

[00:19:00] But the task has proven daunting.

[00:19:03] When it comes to finding a solution, multiple issues are at play.

[00:19:07] One is that FEMA works at its own bureaucratic pace.

[00:19:11] The county is in regular communication trying to speed up the wheels of progress.

[00:19:16] The county is committed to following building codes for the safety of residents and to avoid legal liabilities.

[00:19:26] Right?

[00:19:27] So this is a statement that the county put out in an attempt to combat negative social media posts about temporary flood housing being stymied by red tape.

[00:19:38] So their excuse is safety and legal liabilities.

[00:19:44] We can't allow that.

[00:19:45] We can't do this.

[00:19:46] Legal liabilities.

[00:19:48] I'm sorry if you got mauled by a bear.

[00:19:51] But, you know, we didn't want to get sued.

[00:19:54] I'm sorry that you and your kids froze to death.

[00:19:56] But safety first.

[00:19:59] In addition, the county launched a property owner interest survey.

[00:20:03] Ooh, good.

[00:20:04] A survey.

[00:20:05] To identify potential sites for temporary housing that do meet FEMA criteria.

[00:20:09] That include the site being available for 18 months.

[00:20:13] Have electric, water, and sewer connections outside the special flood hazard area.

[00:20:18] And accessible by road.

[00:20:20] That's what FEMA requires.

[00:20:21] So you got to have a big enough chunk of land.

[00:20:24] You got to be able to promise it for 18 months.

[00:20:27] Have all the electric, water, and sewer hookups.

[00:20:30] And it can't be in any kind of a flood hazard area.

[00:20:33] And it's got to have road access.

[00:20:37] And I would imagine that all of these things are kind of open to interpretation to some degree.

[00:20:41] Like, what is road access really?

[00:20:44] In the wake of catastrophic slope failure, right?

[00:20:49] That buried people and houses and cars under feet of mud and rocks and trees.

[00:20:58] And then some guys from a West Virginia coal company show up and plow a path through the debris.

[00:21:05] Is that a road?

[00:21:07] Does FEMA count that as a road?

[00:21:10] Or is it not quite good enough?

[00:21:14] First order needs.

[00:21:18] Got a series of tweets.

[00:21:19] They're Pete tweets from Roland Bones.

[00:21:24] Who says, Pete, my wife and I live in Fairview, which is outside of Asheville.

[00:21:28] And after the storm hit, we waited two weeks without power or water until FEMA agreed to give us hotel vouchers.

[00:21:36] The problem was that the vouchers were for Greenville, South Carolina.

[00:21:41] With three animals, we decided that that was untenable.

[00:21:48] So we waited longer.

[00:21:51] Next tweet is, we finally got some recommendations from FEMA about hotels in Asheville.

[00:21:57] Problem was the instructions were to call first to book the room.

[00:22:01] None of the five hotels recommended ever answered the phone.

[00:22:04] Doing further research, we found none of them had running water.

[00:22:10] Next tweet is, we decided to simply stay home and wait it out.

[00:22:14] The night temperatures dropped below freezing and it started snowing.

[00:22:18] We got worried.

[00:22:19] On the day that Duke Energy told us that it would be four to 12 weeks until power was restored, by the grace of God, it came back on.

[00:22:26] That very day.

[00:22:28] Next tweet.

[00:22:30] We are beside ourselves with the lack of leadership and response from FEMA, as well as the lack of leadership and response from Roy Cooper's administration.

[00:22:41] Swannanoa is still devastated.

[00:22:43] There's wreckage everywhere.

[00:22:45] The only people who have helped are citizens.

[00:22:52] I think that's it.

[00:22:53] Okay.

[00:22:53] One, two, three, four.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:56] Okay.

[00:22:56] So those are all of the messages.

[00:23:00] Right.

[00:23:00] So when it comes to regulations that apply to temporary housing, two rules in particular are coming into play.

[00:23:08] One involves state building codes for all residential structures, even if they are temporary.

[00:23:14] The other pertains to placing temporary dwellings in a flooded flood area.

[00:23:22] Again, this is according to the Haywood Mountaineer.

[00:23:24] It is legal to place campers and recreational vehicles or RVs on property that has been flooded as long as a flood permit is secured.

[00:23:32] Now, the county says the permit fee is waived post-Hellene and the permits can be issued very quickly.

[00:23:38] However, inside the towns, Waynesville, Canton, Clyde, homeowners can only live in campers or RVs on their own property while their flooded home is being rebuilt.

[00:23:50] So RVs and campers cannot be placed on other parcels inside town limits.

[00:23:56] The sheds, totally different issue.

[00:24:00] State fire marshal's office oversees the state building codes.

[00:24:07] They require kitchens and bathrooms.

[00:24:10] Now, after Tropical Storm Fred, the county was the lead agency for siting FEMA or state temporary housing units.

[00:24:20] All right.

[00:24:21] So the county was in charge after Hurricane Fred led to the flooding and stuff in Haywood County.

[00:24:29] So the county was the lead.

[00:24:31] After Hellene, FEMA is taking the lead.

[00:24:35] Unlike county rules that allow movable campers and RVs in special flood hazard areas, FEMA rules for federally provided portable living units prohibit placement there.

[00:24:46] Many people whose homes were flooded don't want to leave their property because they fear looters will steal what they have left and because they don't want to leave their pets and other animals that were spared from the flooding.

[00:24:58] Right.

[00:24:58] So.

[00:24:59] So.

[00:24:59] It seems to me like there are some fixes that can be employed pretty swiftly.

[00:25:05] State leaders need to be doing that.

[00:25:08] County leaders, town leaders need to be doing that immediately.

[00:25:12] All right.

[00:25:12] That'll do it for this episode.

[00:25:14] Thank you so much for listening.

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[00:25:29] Again, thank you so much for listening.

[00:25:30] And don't break anything while I'm gone.