Asheville HR chief rips firefighters asking for pay raise (08-28-2024--Hour2)

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_05]: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_05]: It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT radio in Charlotte

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_05]: And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events the weekly live stream my daily show prep with all the links become a patron

[00:00:19] [SPEAKER_05]: Go to the Pete Kaliner show comm make sure you hit the subscribe button get every episode for free write your smartphone or tablet

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_05]: And again, thank you so much for your support

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: We go to the one and only Mark Starling from WWNC's the morning guy out there in Asheville. Hello, Mark. How are you, sir?

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm doing well Pete. How about yourself? I am doing well as well on this Wednesday

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I'm trying to make some sort of a literative thing happen there

[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if I'm so excited so by the way do you have your emotional support governor for you with you during this this interview?

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_03]: I I do I found a a random person experiencing homelessness in Asheville

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03]: So I've got them in the car with me in the parking lot while it so it's all good. Wow, that's very that must have been hard to find in

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Asheville

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think it took about three seconds

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so I wanted to get your your take on this story because I think we've discussed it in the past

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_05]: That the city of Asheville created a human relations commission

[00:01:23] [SPEAKER_05]: um, yes, and

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_05]: They opened it up for people to apply. I'm assuming it was open to humans

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, yes, and uh, they uh,

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_05]: Saw people to be on the commission where I guess they were supposed to tackle various relations

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: in the city between humans and

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, they they did not allow certain humans to participate

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_05]: When they applied which was kind of weird

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_05]: so, um, some of those humans then sued the city

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_05]: And we had a an update here that a federal magistrate judge recommended that the plaintiffs

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Can be allowed to proceed with their lawsuit challenging the rules for selecting its human relations commission

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_05]: The suit contends that the city violated constitutional bans on racial discrimination

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so recap this. What's the uh, what's the nub?

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Now I gotta I want to make sure I've got the right story here is this the uh, the john myle story

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the john myle story. Okay. So a lot of this came down to

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_03]: If i'm not mistaken, uh particular schools

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_03]: in Asheville

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_03]: And particular enrollment in schools in Asheville and that was that was kind of like what the surrounding

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_03]: topic of this was

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's essentially on its face

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_03]: That I mean, that's exactly where we're at right? They they

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely went around all of the rules on this thing, but I don't know that it's really a shock for the city of Asheville

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. So apparently john myle and uh, I know john, you know, john he ran for mayor

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and I think currently currently battling cancer again right now. Oh is he oh well

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry to hear that prayers to john myle and his family and

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Hope he pulls through that. Um, but john was a long time

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: City of Asheville employee. He was like in in the management

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he was the he was the cop troller if i'm not mistaken

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and he did like risk management sort of stuff and he he tried to

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Unseat the current mayor esther manheimer

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_05]: This would have been probably about six years ago ran against her

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I think he has ran for city council as well

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and he was uh, he's a more conservative democrat kind of a guy

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't believe he's some right winger republican, right?

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't think he is I think I I mean, I I would call john a centrist if anything

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he probably he probably leans a little a little right

[00:03:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But I certainly wouldn't call him like a hardcore conservative by any stretch

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Right, so he he applied along with four other people

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: To be on this human relations commission

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And they were rejected because they are not a part of a racial minority

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Nor do they have any other?

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_05]: Um category they don't satisfy another category

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Like uh, they live in government housing or they are disabled or something

[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_05]: So if they don't or they're not lgbtq plus two isl whatever like they're not

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_05]: So they don't check any other box there. They're like in his case

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_05]: straight white dude

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: And wanted to be on this commission

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_05]: They rejected him and they never told him why he was rejected and then they opened it back up for more applications

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Even though they had applications from five people for four open seats

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_05]: And so they so the city got sued

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_03]: And rightfully so right and this is the if I'm not mistaken

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_03]: This is the second case john has been involved in

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_03]: The first one was over the

[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm kind of getting straight now now the the first case was over the enrollment into certain private schools

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh and heard school programs

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, and basically they were saying you know, basically it looked like you know

[00:05:12] [SPEAKER_03]: White kids weren't going to be allowed to be

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_03]: enrolled in these schools or participated in these particular schools

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, then of course now you've got this but this is standard operating procedure for ashville

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Right. I mean this is this is just kind of right down the alley for the city of ashville in the way things run

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, we had another incident this uh, it was last week

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_03]: With the firefighters union and they had a meeting with the city manager and and a couple of others at the human resources director

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: And the human resources director

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_03]: Started making some really

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_03]: Really vile allegations against the fire fire the firefighters union

[00:05:54] [SPEAKER_03]: And it just went completely off the rails and there's been no reclaimed. There's been you know

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_03]: There's been nothing that is that has happened to this hr director

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean the things she said were just absolute blatant lies and taking shots

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Personally at firefighters like I said, this is kind of the treatment that people

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_03]: Generally come to expect from the city of ashville. What was what was this? What was this woman saying?

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_03]: She basically said that uh, she's on board with oh well, you know, just because you're a firefighter

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03]: You're not working all the time. You're just hanging out at the firehouse doing nothing in between calls

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_03]: So you shouldn't get to you you shouldn't get paid

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you shouldn't be talking about your pay from an hourly pay stamp a standpoint

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_03]: You should be talking about it from a yearly salary standpoint now meanwhile

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_03]: $15 and 88 cents is the going rate for a starting ashville firefighter

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: So is it her contention that if you are at the firehouse and you're not doing any of the like the maintenance at the firehouse

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: You're not cleaning the trucks or up, you know making sure the equipment's uh,

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_05]: inspected like you're not doing anything like that like you're literally

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Just hanging out on the couch

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Reading a book playing a video game or something right that you should not be so you should be clocking out for that

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_05]: For that time period. Is that the idea or are they requiring you to be at the at the firehouse?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Well, she's basically so the firefighters are trying to get the the starting pay for for

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_03]: For ashville firefighters increased right? I mean, you know, they they come up with the living wage of 21 dollars and 30 cents an hour

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_03]: And yet they only pay their starting firefighters 1588

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Right so and that that living wage that ashville living wage, you know

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_03]: That was part of the the human rights commission, right or the human rights council or whatever they're calling it

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but yet somehow it doesn't hold true for their own employees

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: So they will point the finger at businesses around town that aren't paying, you know

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: The 21 dollars an hour or whatever it is

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_03]: But they won't those rules don't apply to them. No no mark. Come on. Come now. Yeah, I mean

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_03]: We're talking about you know, we're talking about firefighters and and even even so much police officers

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_03]: Who cannot afford to live in the city for which they work?

[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_03]: Right and for for the I mean the cops are in a little bit better shape than they were last year and two years ago as far as the pay goes

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: But they're still drastically underpaid

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: And they've still got all of these, you know that there is all of this

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you all are privileged

[00:08:27] [SPEAKER_03]: Attitude from the city council

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03]: From the human rights commission from the HR department. It's that oh, no, no, no

[00:08:34] [SPEAKER_03]: You you all are just privileged because you don't have to work in between calls

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Like like fighting fires and saving lives is some sort of innate knowledge that you're just born with that

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to train for it, right? I mean that's that's kind of where we're at and it just

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, this is standard operating procedure for the city of Asheville

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_05]: So then well, then I think the obvious solution here because you know me

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm all about solutions

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: So I think the obvious solution is that um when you're done with whatever the call is

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Then you punch out

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: And you go home and you go do whatever you want to do

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_05]: You're off the clock. No no reason for you to be driving around or hanging out at the firehouse, right? Sure

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, because you're not really working and and that's not real work

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So it just you know punch out and then if there's another call then okay now you punch back in

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And you would go to that call but now that means that if you are

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Off duty like you're not going to be doing any work

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_03]: Right and did I did I mention that the firefighter that was speaking in front of

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_03]: Well the panel

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_03]: The one that was basically verbally abused

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Um, he was also holding his child in his arms because they couldn't uh, they can't afford to get childcare

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_03]: And his wife had to work that day. Oh, yeah, that's right

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: And he also fell through from the second floor of a burning building

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_03]: He fell to the floor like maybe a month prior nice

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: But you you should only you should be ashamed of yourself

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_03]: For parading firefighters in front of the council to tell their pitiful stories

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_03]: Basically what the attitude was it was like so we we encouraged folks that morning

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03]: We actually had the firefighters union on and we encouraged folks to call the human resources office

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_03]: So we continually gave that phone number out throughout the morning

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_03]: So I didn't see any smoke coming from city hall

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_03]: So I assume their phones didn't catch fire, but uh, I'm pretty sure that they got some uh

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Fairly strong worded call

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh into the front desk that morning when in winning a lot of friends over there at the uh human resources

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Office are you mark? Um, they just love they love you

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, hey, hey, just uh, I'm a special guy to them

[00:10:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Mark starling morning guy wwnc radio in ashville. Thanks mark always appreciate you

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_05]: You got it Pete. Have a great day. All right. Take it easy

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: All right

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Hey real quick if you would like to get your product or service in front of about 10 000 people multiple times a day

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Send me an email at pete at the pete calliner show dot com and ask me about advertising

[00:11:01] [SPEAKER_05]: It's super affordable. It's baked into this podcast forever

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_05]: And podcasts have a higher conversion rate than other social media platforms making it the best bang for your buck

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_05]: Send me a message pete at the pete calliner show dot com and I can show you how it works

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Run the numbers with you again. That's pete at the pete calliner show dot com

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go over to bill and chat with bill. Hello bill. Welcome to the program. How are you?

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I'm great. Good. I'm uh, uh, you know, I listen to you all the time. Thank you, sir

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I'm an old retired firefighter

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I spent 25 years in city of charlotte great career

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_00]: total active service in the fire departments is 50 years

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_00]: And they made the comment about what they're getting paid

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: And just sitting around

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_00]: One thing that I just sitting around all the time they're studying

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_00]: They're doing hydra maintenance they're on station and truck maintenance and all that other stuff

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is my reserve officer was a police department here for 25 years too

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And people would always say well you getting paid for doing nothing

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're not paying me for what I'm doing

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_00]: You're paying me for what I am willing to do

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good way to put it. That is a really good way to put it

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, over the years my oldest son was a line of duty fatality here in 1999 in hemby bridge

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. I have been involved in the fallen firefighters foundation since then

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay

[00:12:32] [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I know what I know what the penalties are and I know what to find you know, and I know what they're willing to give

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00]: I've been involved in a lot of the funerals and stuff in north carolina

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Okay

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_00]: In different ways

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_00]: But for people to sit out there and say well you getting paid for doing nothing

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you go do it. It's not what we're doing. It's what we have decided to be prepared to do

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Well and uh to that point which is what makes it all the more egregious particularly in the uh

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Ashville case where this human resources

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Director said this to the firefighters was you know, there's a bridge in ashville that they just renamed a couple years ago for jeff bowen

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_00]: The firefighter involved in in that incident too. Yeah with yeah, so like what's that?

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good friends with his mother. Oh, is that right? I'm the one that transported the captain back home

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_05]: Right and so if you've ever gone over the the west ashville bridge, it's now the it's called the captain

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Bowen bridge because he lost his life in the line of duty

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh fighting a fire at a medical office

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and I mean and and it it really affected the community people were really upset about his death and

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: For I mean how you know and I don't know where this woman comes from. I don't know where

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, if she's a lifelong ashvillian or if she is a transplant or something but

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I mean just that that kind of callous behavior towards

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh towards a city department. Yeah, I mean these are city employees as well

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh and any other city employee comes down there and lobbies for more money and they don't get that kind of treatment

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well it's it goes back to something that limbaugh used to say about um

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_05]: Police and fire is it's they're basically the last city department city government positions that are populated by conservatives generally

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_05]: And so there's animosity towards them from inside city government because the people that populate the management and a lot of the other departments are not

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: So the jailer because they're not brave enough

[00:14:47] [SPEAKER_00]: To do what those guys do with guys and girls. Yeah, that's possible too. Yeah bill

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I do appreciate the call. Thank you for your service to it. I'm sorry to hear about your uh, your son

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's uh, but yeah, I get uh, yeah

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm I'm calling me. I'll be glad to go talk to him

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Bill I appreciate it sir. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh and thanks for calling

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So along those lines of the uh

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: The human relations commission lawsuit up in ashville thought this was an interesting story

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I've covered a lot over the years

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_05]: robin de angelo

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_05]: Robin de angelo is the author of the best-selling book

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: white fragility

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And uh, she is a big believer

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_05]: in giving credit to and citing

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_05]: minorities

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_05]: She has a whole section

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: dedicated to it in her book

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: She has an uh, what's called an accountability statement on her website

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Which makes repeated reference to her phd by the way

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Aaron

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Sibariam or Sibarium at the washington free beacon reports that de angelo 67 years old

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Tells fellow white people that they should always cite and give credit to the work of bipoc people

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Who have informed your thinking?

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_05]: So make a very big deal about this

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: by the way, uh, bipoc stands for

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Black indigenous people of color

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: so

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Bipoc all different which is weird because she says

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_05]: Bipoc people because that like people's already in it's the p in the bipoc

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_05]: So why would you never mind anyway? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He says if their contribution is just a few words

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_05]: De angelo states quote when you use a phrase or idea you got from a bipoc person

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Credit them, but the white diversity trainer

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Hasn't always taken her own advice apparently

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_05]: According to a complaint that was filed last week with the university of washington where de angelo received her phd in

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Multicultural education because of course she plagiarized several scholars including

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_05]: You guessed it

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_05]: two minorities

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, she did it in her doctoral thesis

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: In 2004

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_05]: dissertation titled

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: whiteness in racial dialogue a discourse analysis

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_05]: And she lifts paragraphs from an asian american professor

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: northeastern universities thomas nakayama and his co-author robert

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: crizak

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And does not give them proper attribution. She omits quotation marks and in text citations

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_05]: de angelo also lifted material from stacey lee who is an asian american professor of education at the university of

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Wisconsin madison in which lee

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Summarizes the work of a different scholar named david theo goldberg

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_05]: There was a quote in the washington free beacon article from peter wood the president of the national association of scholars

[00:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Who likened de angelo's actions to forgery?

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_05]: Said quote it is never appropriate to use the secondary source without acknowledging it and even worse to present it as one's own words

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: That's plagiarism

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: The complaint that was filed

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Um

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_05]: With the uh with the school with the university

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Describes dozens of cases in which dozens in which

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_05]: De angelo who by the way rakes in almost a million dollars a year in speaking fees

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Passed off the work of others as her own

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It calls into question the key credential on which de angelo built her career

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Which has relied on the notion that her therapeutic workshops where she calls every white person a racist

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Um can cost up to 40 000 dollars

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_05]: But the whole thing is built on supposedly

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_05]: scholarly expertise

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Yet she plagiarized her dissertation

[00:19:20] [SPEAKER_05]: She takes credit for coining the term white fragility which is basically

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, here's what she says it is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: tolerable triggering a range of defensive moves

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_05]: Now practically speaking what this looks like is when you go into these types of

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: workshops

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_05]: And uh somebody says that you're being racist for something and you get defensive saying you're not racist. That is white fragility

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_05]: Right that's so it's almost like a no-win situation almost as if

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_05]: Once an obscure professor at westfield state university de angelo emerged in 2020 as the high priestess of progressive racialism

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Her most famous book white fragility

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_05]: published in 2018

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Flew off the shelves following george floyd's death

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_05]: It beat out

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: How to be an anti-racist by

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Ibra max kendi a black man on the best seller list

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, so the progressive white woman's book

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_05]: About white fragility beat out the black guy's book about how to be an anti-racist. Yeah

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_05]: De angelo shouldn't that be sent? She's she's ignoring her own

[00:20:40] [SPEAKER_05]: uh

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: By prescriptions to center

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: minority voices

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_05]: She's just took the first place ranking away from poor ibram

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: Not as real name by the way. Anyway de angelo has become a staple of teacher trainings corporate affinity groups fundraisers and

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_05]: anti-racist book clubs. She even addressed

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: 184 members of congress including then speaker

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Nancy Pelosi about what it means to be white telling the democrat caucus in 2020 that its members would continue to hurt black people until they

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: Reckoned with the question. What does it mean to be white?

[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_05]: By the way, have y'all ever thought about what you're going?

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: What the society looks like I should say

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: If you start getting white folks to view white as their

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Most important immutable characteristic first if they start looking if white people start looking at everything through this racialized prism

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think that that leads us to a better place?

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_05]: launched um

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Hang on a second the talk was one of myriad speaking engagements that launched de angelo into the top 1% of american earners

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Which by the way helped her to purchase not one home

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Not two homes

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_05]: but three homes

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Worth 1.6 million dollars and then of course was the famous photo of her at one of the uh, uh

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: One of these homes in washington state where she had a whole bunch of people there

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And they were all white people and they took a picture around her dinner table as like 30 people and they were all white folks

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, also she doesn't give

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_05]: She tells everybody else to give a big chunk of their

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Income until it hurts is what she said and then it turns out she hasn't donated any money to any of these minority

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Projects, but she tells everybody else to

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Guys i'm starting

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_05]: to see a pattern

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Let me go over to the phones here. Ruth has called back. I believe this is ruth smith. Welcome to the show ruth. How are you?

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm good. How are you p? I am doing well. So

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_05]: uh, you are an attorney out in western north carolina right and uh

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_05]: You are representing the plaintiffs in the case that we were talking about earlier with mark starling from wwc

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and so um

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_01]: What we've what we're having here in western north carolina at least bunkham county and ashville they they have made

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_01]: equity

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_01]: The number one issue

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Above education above solving homelessness above affordable housing

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Equity is the number one issue for bunkham county for in their 20-year plan and this city is

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and locked up with them

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So they have um

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: There are multiple multiple issues that we are looking at

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I'll just give you some examples. Um

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: The the high schools here are offering a medical internship to students to work at mayhack

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_01]: White students are excluded

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have a charter school here where uh peak academy. It's a public charter school

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Where the board of directors has stated that

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_01]: White students and white teachers will be limited to no more than 50 percent of enrollment and staff

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have a 2.3 million federal grant that went to mountain biz works

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Where um white persons white businesses are not allowed to participate in any of the grants or any of the

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Of the programs that that are offered through through the money

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have mentorship programs at abtech

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: This is you know publicly funded

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's a public school. Um that excludes white students

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we have the city of ashville uh contact contracts

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And they're requiring quotas for racial minorities and they're contracting

[00:24:50] [SPEAKER_01]: None of this is legal

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: None of it is legal

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then we have reparations that are that are coming down

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, some of the recommendations from the reparations include

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, race based daycare centers

[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_01]: racially exclusive

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01]: health care centers

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Cash payments based on race

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh scholarships based on race paying teachers paying public school teachers

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Based on their skin color

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know one teacher gets one salary the other teacher gets another salary

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_01]: None of this is legal. Okay, so this is just the human relations case is just the tip of the iceberg

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01]: The the challenge that we have it are finding plaintiffs

[00:25:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Who are willing to participate in these lawsuits because you're you're familiar with ashville

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what happens if you stick your head out, um

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: In opposition to you know the the very leftist people here

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I I give full credit and praise to the plaintiffs in this case

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: That were willing to come forward but that that's what we're seeing here in ashville

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Right. Yeah, john myle being one of those plaintiffs. Um, that applied to be on the human relations commission and was rejected

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_05]: They never did tell him why but his assumption is that it's because he's a white guy, right?

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had five people very qualified people apply. Um, some of them, you know have

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_01]: One of them was an architect that designed multiple buildings in ashville

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: John had been um, you know the

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was the risk management

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Um person for the city of ashville, you know new

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Knows the city very well and yeah, they were all passed over

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_01]: um

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: And the the seats were left empty. So this was a this is a white plus

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh case that we have so there there's certain cases where they just say no whites are allowed at all

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but this one they said

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Um

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You can serve if you're white if you have a plus factor

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_01]: The plus factor being that you had to be a member of the lg

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: BT

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: community

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, or you live in public housing or um, you're under the age of 25

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the fourth one was that you are a community leader as they defined community leader, which was never defined

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_01]: But if you didn't have a plus factor and you're white, you weren't you're more qualified to serve

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're we're we're glad that the court

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You know has recognized that discrimination is still discrimination

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what ibra max kendi wrote in his book how to be anti-racist right that the the way to uh to essentially

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Fix pay or address past discrimination is present and future discrimination. It's explicit

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: He says so explicitly that's the right that is a purpose supreme court said in the students referred mission case last year

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I love the way it was written to constitutional wrongs do not make a constitutional right

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_05]: So um, all right. So what's next in this particular case real quick? I have about 30 seconds

[00:28:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so the recommendations will go to the federal judge

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And he will issue an order we we expected to be in line with the with the memorandum

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And then the case proceeds so we'll take depositions and do discovery and um, the case will proceed towards trial

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, if people want to help how do they do that?

[00:28:24] [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they can uh the the main law firm that's handling it is specific legal foundations

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So donations to them are always appreciated or they can contact a w n c citizens for equality

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_01]: Which is the organization we set up in western north carolina to help fight some of this Ruth smith

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much for uh for chatting with us. I do appreciate it

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, take care. All right you too. Take care. That's ruth smith

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we'll see good luck on the case

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_05]: All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_05]: So if you'd like please support them too and tell them you heard it here

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_05]: You can also become a patron at my patreon page or go to thepcalinarshow.com again

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you so much for listening and uh, don't break anything while i'm gone