Andrew Dunn on the murders of Iryna Zarutska and Charlie Kirk (09-16-2025--Hour1)

What's going on. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon to three on WBT Radio and Charlotte. And if you want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, go to dpeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the subscribe button. Get every episode for free right to your smartphone or tablet. And again, thank you so much for your support. It's Tuesday at noon and that means we do what we always do at Tuesday at noon. Here we talked to Andrew Dunn. He's a contributing columnist at the Charlotte Observer. He's also the publisher of long Leaf Politics. You can read his work at longleafpol dot com. Andrew, welcome to the show. How are you today, sir? I'm doing all right. Thanks for having me. On, of course, of course. So let me start with your two pieces, one at the Observer and one at your site, Longleaf Politics. One is about Arena Zerots and the other is about Charlie Kirk's assassination. So let me start with the piece at the Observer that you started off by writing, National Attention can be clumsy even course, it's also powerful, and in the case of justice for Arena Zarutzka, it was necessary. So I simply ask why was it necessary? Yeah, I mean it was necessary because the city seemed perfectly content to just let the whole tragedy pass by without much of a comment. We talked a few weeks ago. You know, the first column I wrote basically pointed that out that the response from the city had been very underwhelming and not appropriate to the level of tragedy that the city had experienced. You know, we really didn't see the city start to take it seriously until, unfortunately, the videos. You know, the videos were hard to watch, but they were necessary in shocking the conscience and drawing the nation's attention. And then and only then did we see leaders start to actually take things seriously. Yeah, and and we, yeah, we did talk about this. And the way that the story was initially described sanitizes it in a way, because you're just reading people's words about what the police report said. And you've read I'm sure enough police reports over your career as a reporter that you know, we call it cop talk, right, They write their reports in a sanitized way, and I understand why they do that. I'm not criticizing, but you're if you're a reporter and you're trying to then tell a story about this thing that happened, you got to rely on the cop talk. It is a sanitized version of what occurred. The video blew all of that up, and it allowed people to see the before and the after, and then of course we got a lot of Then you mentioned some of this in your piece the Republicans Pouncing, which I still do not understand why legacy media outlets continue to frame stories with pouncing and seizing. They must know by now that we mock them for this. I don't understand why they continue to do it. But that's exactly what they did that Republicans were seizing on this. But here's the thing they should have everybody should have. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, it is almost self parody at this point. You know how often the narrative becomes Republicans pounce or Republicans sees I honestly, I'm not sure that they do realize it. I don't know how, but there is a complete lack of self awareness there. But my perspective here is, you know, if you can in a situation like this, if the headline is Republicans Pounce, you have to ask yourself, well, why is it only Republicans pouncing? Why is everyone not pouncing on this? And what does it say at the about your worldview? Yeah, I don't know if that's worse that you say they they don't know. That's almost worse. I guess that it just speaks to how how insulated they may be in their echo chamber. And I look, I've worked in, you know, a couple of newsrooms, and so I know what that's like. Trying to tell people about a particular story idea that you know, I have come across, and the entire newsroom has no idea what I'm talking about, because everybody else in the newsroom doesn't get story leads and doesn't get informed by anything other than you know, sort of the same news sources and leads. And I guess probably with social media, that's where a lot of these leads get generated. And if you're only following people that agree with you, then you may never see the mockery of the pouncing and seizing as one example. So, but maybe I'm being too charitable. I don't know, I'm just you know, I try to see all of the angles there, so let me now, yeah, I mean. The charitable view would be say that you know, yes, I mean the Observer and other media outlets did cover this, and so now they're saying, well, now we need to cover the reaction to it. But I feel like that there is a middle ground there that that would be a little more self aware. Yeah, and look, the reaction stories are the stories that you turn when a story has quote unquote legs. You know, if the story has legs and you can keep doing follow ups to the story in the days that go by, sure, but it but to frame everything, like we said, with the pouncing and the seizing it there. You know, words have weight, right, It's why when I was a reporter, I always wrote said, I never used any other adjective besides said or replied. I never said any other word because those are neutral terms. And when you start using different words, like you know, pouncing and seizing, you're you're adding weight to this in a way that a lot of times, you know, like if you say the word denied, well, that carries an implication of guilt or that they're lying right, or they're accused of something and so I always steered clear of those words. But that was just me. Let me get to the Charlie Kirk, the Charlie Charlie Kirk piece that you wrote, and this is at Long Leave Politics, the headline, why Charlie Kirk's murder feels so personal? You have never you'd never met. Charlie Kirk, right, correct, I never met him. Do you ever watch any of his videos or anything before? Oh? Sure, I've watched tons of them, you know. To be honest, I've watched more over this past week than I had combined before. But I was certainly very familiar with them. And you know the reason why I said it feel so personal the short version, and I did connect it back to Irena and Zaruska. You know, I wrote in The Observer with IRENA's case, it was hard for me not to see my wife in her place. It was hard for me not to see my children in that place. You know. With Charlie, it's hard not to see myself. And I think for a lot of us, you know, especially people who do have conservative views, and even more so people who you know, write on conservative topics and you know, appear at conservative events. I mean it it you have to. Your mind immediately goes to, well, this could be this could be any of us, and that's what makes it so scary. You wrote, Just as close up videos of Charlie's assassination were deluging social media, the newspaper I contribute to published two columns from staff members cynically mocking Republicans for making Arena's death of political issue. And my stomach turned again. And so, like you said, you didn't think you could be associated with The Observer anymore. Yeah, that was my initial reaction. And you know, I called my editor over there and I said that, and that was my gut level reaction. You know, I think a lot of us the instinctual reaction is to retreat and to and to retreat to your tribe, you know, quote unquote tribe. And especially as I was starting to see people react with glee, with joy over over Charlie's murder, you know, my mind immediately went to, well, you know, if this is how people on that side of the aisle think of us, I don't want to be a part of it. But you know, on reflection, you know, as as kind of that initial reaction subsided, I realized that that wasn't fair. So I am still contributing to the Observer, and I think it's important. I think it's okay, it's natural to have that gut reaction, but I do think it's important, you know, as a society, for us to be able to then take a breath, think more calmly and rationally and move forward from there. Well, and I think that's wise and I support you staying with it because you know, one of the pieces of advice that Ben Shapiro, who was a mentor to Charlie Kirk and who I uh, you know, I followed him for years. One of the things he said is like, once you decide to get into this political arena that you you know, you walk towards the battles, you don't, I mean, if you're getting in, then be in and be prepared when you know, when you walk into the battle. And so and that's what Charlie Kirk was about as well, that you know, you when you stop talking, that's when violence happens. And I long believe that as well. And and this is why he had he had to be silenced, because he's out there and he's debating people, and when you have no argument then you just want the other side to shut up, and you're providing that argument to an audience I think over there that may not ever encounter that kind of an argument. So I'm glad you're gonna stick with it. I was I was like, oh no, when I read that line, It's like, oh no, he can't be. He can't be bailing on the fight. So that's good. But you also, and I think this is important to you, say we need a shared belief that America is fundamentally good, not irredeemably evil. Patriotism is a virtue, not a vice. Faith is vital to public life, not something to be driven underground. We have a duty to serve others, not just ourselves. And there is such a thing as objective truth, and it's worth defending. And I think that's those are wise words, And I think I think that this has been a moment of clarity for a lot of people. Do you like, what do you think? What is your sense? I guess of the quote vibe particularly among conservatives after this. Yeah, and thank you for those kind words. I really think the root of a lot of the problems that we're having in our country is we're drifting away from that shared consensus. You know, instead of having the shared goals and different ways to approach them, we're increasingly having different worldviews that are completely divorced from each other. I wrote a piece a number of months ago where you know, in partisan battles, it's almost like the two sides are operating in their own realities that are are bizarro versions of each other. I think we talked about that, yeah, And I think a lot of it has to do with certain, you know, sections of society. And I think this does happen on both the left and the right. Have replaced religion and faith with politics and partisanship. And I think if you do that, you know, you know, in religion, we have the concept of good and evil, of God and Satan. And if you're replacing religion with politics, you're almost forced to then have you know, your side is the good side and the other side is the evil side. And I think that's pretty corrosive to our society. Well, and I think that you, I think you're correct here in your piece when you say that the two sides are civilization versus anarchy. Right, it's order versus chaos, truth versus falsehood. As you right, good versus evil. I think these are these are the things. And when I look at one side that tries to silence another, the only reason you do that is because you don't have truth on your side. Otherwise you would just argue the points and the truth will win out. And if you can't win, then probably you don't have the truth on your side. I suspect that's what sort of at a societal level, at a spiritual level, that's what we're seeing. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And you know, it's important not to go too far on that because I do think, and I write this in my piece, that the other kind of toxic tendency is to treat political violence as a scoreboard and then everybody you know, feels the need to come up with their own examples. And I don't think that's good. So when I say that there is a good versus evil, I'm not saying, you know, Republicans are good and Democrats are evil. What I'm saying is there are good people and there are evil people. There is evil at work in this world, right. I don't know how you look at the murder of Charlie Kirk and sell librate that to me, is evil. You're celebrating evil. I'm watching today in New York where they drop the terrorism charge against Luigi Mangioni, and the crowd outside that's chanting. Free Luigi erupts in cheers and applause and celebration because they drop the charge. He's still looking at the at the federal death penalty, but they're cheering that. They're cheering for this guy. That to me is evil. That's a very bright line, like you don't cheer for murderers of innocent people. That just me, Yeah, I. Mean, that is clearly evil at work in the world. Now, I do want to point out I am not saying those people who are doing that are evil, as I believe that everyone is redeemable, everyone, you know, everyone needs a savior. But that is clearly evil at work. Right, No, I got you, Andrew Dune. I appreciate your time as always, keep up the good work. You can read him at long Leave Politics. Also a contributing columnists at The Charlotte Observer. Still Andrew Dunn, Thanks buddy, I appreciate it, Thank you. Take care. That's Andrew Dunn. Longleafpol dot com is that website, by the way, all right, So you've heard me talk about Creative Video for almost a year. But did you know they also offer a game changing app for businesses that reward their teams with incentive trips. Well they do. It's called Incentive trip Kit. If you want a business or work at one that offers these incentive trips, this is a mustap. It maximizes the impact and value of these motivational trips. It's a super easy to use app built just for your group, with private messaging, shared photos, important trip documents, even a find the group locator just in case somebody gets separated. And when I say it's private, I mean it. No personal emails, no phone numbers, no ads, no account sign ups. Everyone uses one shared login, so it's super easy, no hassles. During the trip, everybody can post their best photos and short video clips, and folks back at the office can even follow along. And then after the trip, Incentive trip Kit turns those memories into a professional storytelling video you can use to motivate, inspire, and get people fired up for next year's trip. More fun, more memories, more ROI check it out now at incentive tripkit dot com or call Eric at eight eight eight five three three seventy six thirty seven Extension two O seven for the details. One of the other parts from Andrew Dunn's piece at the Charlotte Observer, he talks about public outcry producing action. He says outrage is not an end in itself. It is the spark that assigns responsibility and compels those with authority to act. I think he's exactly right. He goes on later in the piece, though, to say the outcry narrowed the range of excuses. It forced plane speech to put names and timelines on the table, and that is a civic good. Anger can corrode judgment, and the Christian tradition wisely counsels slowness to wrath. But it also teaches something else. Some anger isn't just permitted, it's required. Righteous anger is governed by reason and aimed at real evil. It refuses cruelty, but it also refuses indifference in the face of grave injustice. The absence of anger is its own failure of judgment. And this is about the murder of Arena Zerutzka. He wrote this piece. He says that he wrote this before the murder of Charlie Kirk, but he is exactly right. And I think that's what you're seeing from people on the right quote unquote, But not even just people on the right. There are people who are in the middle. Even some liberals are repulsed by what they have seen in response to the Kirk murder, but also repulsed by the murder of Arena Zerutzka as well. Game on Week one starts now, and every touchdown brings you closer to a payout. With Drift Kings sport book and official sports betting partner of the NFL, this isn't just football, it's first touchdown fireworks anytime. TD rushes live bets that ride every momentum shift. At DraftKings, every play is your next shot to win. Will the Panthers win? Will we even get a touchdown? New customers bet just five dollars and get three hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly, plus get over two hundred dollars off NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. So your season starts now. Download the Draft Kings sports book app and use code Pete to get three hundred dollars in bonus bets instantly when you place your first bet of five dollars or more plus over two hundred dollars off NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV, but you got to use promo code PETE. In partnership with Draft Kings, The Crown is yours. Gambling problem called one eight hundred gambler In New York, call eight seven seven eight hope and why, or text hope and why four six seven three six nine. In Connecticut, help is available for a problem gambling Call eight eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven or visit CCPG dot org. Play responsibly on behalf of boothill, casino and resort Kansas. Fees may apply in Illinois twenty one plus age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire seven days after issuance. Se Sportsbook dot DraftKings dot Com, Slash Promos NFL Sunday Ticket offer for new subscribers only and auto renews until canceled. Digital games and commercial use excluded. Restrictions apply additional NFL Sunday Ticket terms or at YouTube dot com, slash Go Slash NFL Sunday Tickets Slash terms Limited time offer. Peace at the Associated Press by Gary Robertson North Carolina's top legislative leaders are aiming to advance a package of proposed laws, in part designed to titan pre trial release rules following the fatal stabbing of a Ukrainian refugee on a Charlotte commuter train that prompted national attention and calls for tougher on crime policies, more oversight of and less discretion. Four local magistrates who make decisions on criminal suspects is one of the provisions likely to be introduced when the Republican controlled General Assembly reconvenes on September twenty second. The package could also include an effort to restart the death penalty and prevent the governor and other executive branch officials from creating commissions that the legislative leaders can tend to encourage local policies favoring perpetrators. Twenty twenty three. I'll have more on that. This was the governor's Governor Roy Cooper at the time, the governor his Racial Equity task Force, and they had this like fifteen pages of recommendations in the wake of the you know, the summer of Saint George Floyd, of fiery but mostly peaceful riots and all of this was done, you know, to make the criminal justice more system more equitable. Because I've gone over this before, the disparate outcomes when you see the number of black people arrested or incarcerated, and it is larger as a percentage of the population or a proportion of the population than their total population would otherwise be like if they're twenty percent of the local population, but they make up forty percent of arrests. The left points to that and says, well, that's proof of systemic racism, and it is actually not proof of systemic racism because there are a whole host of other criteria that feed into that data. Anyway, So they put out these recommendations, and you're going to hear in a moment from Marshall Moray, who is a former judge, long time now Democrat state lawmaker, who says, look, the Republican legislature didn't even codify pass into law a lot of these recommendations that came from the task Force, right, But it doesn't need some of this stuff doesn't need to be passed into law because you have individual judges who are of the left who see this body comprised of virtually all people of the left in the legal community that says, this is what we want to see done for reforms, and when they at their local level, at their individual level, they can advance those types of reforms by not giving people cash bail, by just letting them go right, by taking these recommendations and implementing them on their own right, the message gets sent and the messages received. A twenty twenty three state law that was backed by Charlotte area law enforcement officials require judges, not magistrates, to set conditions for pre trial release for certain violent offenders, taking it out of the hands of the magistrates. That already happened two years ago because of these kinds of things, and so maybe they now broad in the category of crimes that take it out of the magistrate's hands. They also suggest eliminating the option for county magistrates to grant casualists bail for defendants with past violent felony convictions, and that would result in more consistency in these magistrates' decisions. Speaker of the House, Destined Hall, said, magistrates have a lot of discretion in given cases, and in the past in this state that has worked, but it's clearly not working anymore. Right, So what happened. What broke it? If it was working, but it's not working anymore, and it's not working in Democrat run jurisdictions. Why did that happen because the philosophy changed. Hall said that the way magistrates are selected also will be examined. Currently, they are nominated by the chief trial court clerk in each county and then appointed by the senior chief trial judge. So they're going to look at I don't know, maybe making some qualifications for magistrates, making them appointed differently or something. Stein spokesperson Morgan The governor spokesperson Morgan Hopkins said the governor is advocating for more funding to recruit and retain law enforcement officers. I've said this repeatedly. This was not a cop problem. This is not a police funding problem. They arrested the guy fourteen times. They did their job. This is a judicial philosophy problem also, the governor says. The spokesperson says, the governor has advocated training judges and magistrates on best practices for setting release conditions for defendants with mental illness. Right like, how about this if they are schizophrenic, just by one example, and they have a history a long history of violent crimes. How about you keep them in custody until you do a psyche val. How about that? Here's Marsha Moury writing at the Charlotte Observer, first of course, saying, you know, Zarutzka's murder was inexplicable, act of brutal violence. Crime was abhorrent, But so is the Republican response to politicize her killing and blame soft on crime democrats. Right, that's abhorrent too. That's as abhorrent as a twenty three year old being slaughtered on a train car. That's the same. It's the same level to you, Judge Moury, former Judge Morey, who is she is as awful as awfuls get affluent white female liberal. She is like poster child, she said. Phil Berger, leader of the Senate, went so far as to claim that free bus fairs in Charlotte were responsible for this crime. Yes, judge, because had he not been allowed to board the train without paying a fare, he would not have been on the train. Very simple. This is an honor system and it is. It is not working. It's not working. And for you not to understand that and then attack Senator Phil Berger for suggesting it when he's correct. He is correct, and you attacking him over this shows your ignorance of this issue. Judge your honor. So when I was a kid, my grandpa died with Alzheimer's, and before he died, my mom and my dad took care of him as he got worse. Forty years ago, there were no treatments and not much support for caregivers and family. But things are different today because of the work of so many people, including the Alzheimer's Association of Western Carolina. It's a great organization with awesome people with huge hearts. I've been a supporter for twenty five years. This cause means a lot to me. I participate in the annual walk to end Alzheimer's and I'm leading a Charlotte team again this year and it's called once again Pete's Pack. You can sign up and you can join the team and walk with us. It's on October eighteenth that truest field sign up at alz dot org slash walk and then you can search for my team name Pete's Pack. There's also a link at thepetepod dot com. There's also a link in the description of this podcast. Also, I'll be am seeing the Gastonia Walk on October eleventh, and so you can make a team and join that one too, or make a donation and help me hit my goal of five thousand dollars. If you do, I really appreciate it. There are a bunch of other walks all over the Carolinas. You can go to alz dot org slash walk for all the dates and locations. We're closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's. Can you help us get there? Will you walk with me? For a different future, for families, for more time for treatments. This is why we walk. I was reminded that Judge Marsha Maury, former judge, longtime state representative, and awful affluent white female liberal. She always gets up and argues and makes the worst arguments, which really is an indictment on the on the bench. But she took to the op ed pages and I was reminded that she is She was an Olympic swimmer too, which means we cannot criticize her because she participated in sports at some point. Now I don't know if she would have actually won anything had she competed against a biological male, which she now wants all female athletes to do. But that's a that's a fair point. She was a swimmer, she was an she was an Olympic swimmer. So we need to keep that in mind too, because she always mentions it. By the way, anyway, she writes in this piece that the magistrate that that let de Carlos Brown Junior free on his latest arrest seven or eight months prior to him murdering Arena Zarutska on the light railcar. The magistrate followed the law as written. She did nothing outside of what the statute requires. North Carolina's laws allow for orders to appear in court for nonviolent misdemeanors and to cash bond for more serious offenses. The assigned magistrate had every right to order him to appear in court without posting a bond, as he was charged with a nonviolent defense and had no convictions in the prior five years. He had no convictions. See now over at WBTV, Naomi Coles did what we call journalism and went through his rap sheet and detailed all of the arrests and what became of them going back to two thousand and seven. He was charged three times for misdemeanors between seven and nine, including simple assault, disorderly conduct, resisting a public officer. All of those cases were dismissed, no details were available pending two or sorry. Between twenty eleven and twenty thirteen, Brown was charged again with several misdemeanors for which he failed to show up in court, which to me, that would that would be evidence for the magistrate back in what July to have looked at that record and said, this guy does have a history of skipping court, so getting him with a promise to appear. He's homeless, he's schizophrenic, he's already skipped court in the past, so maybe he may not show up, Just throwing that out there. In September twenty eleven, a criminal summons was issued for him for communicating threats, but he was not arrested. Two months later, he was cited for speeding in Guildford County and arrest order was issued. A few months later in that case, he failed to appear in court. Court records indicate that the Mecklinburg County Sheriff's Office arrested him in that case June of twenty thirteen, a couple months prior to his arrest in June twenty thirteen, in April twenty thirteen, he was cited for shoplifting. A few months later, in August of twenty thirteen, he was arrested on an older warrant for failing to show up to court in the case for communicating threats, as well as two new charges of injury to property. He was then released on unsecured bond. The same day, November twenty thirteen, CMPD officer arrests Brown in a new case that led to new felony charges for larceny and breaking and entering. The arrest included three outstanding warrants for the three other pending misdemeanors, where he would ultimately plead guilty to shoplifting, while the threats charge and the property injury charge were both dismissed. He was then convicted of the felony breaking and entering, assigned to thirty days in jail twenty four months supervised probation. August twenty fourteen, he assaulted a Honduran man and stole a Samsung Galaxy and about seven hundred and fifty dollars in US and Honduran currency. They found the stuff at Brown's apartment. He was arrested charged with robbery, and a dangerous weapon possession of a firearm by a felon A judge That two secured bonds totaling one hundred and ten thousand dollars. In that case, he was not released. He was convicted, went to prison for just over five years. He was released in twenty twenty in September twenty twenty so covid Era police then have three interactions between twenty twenty two and twenty four. None of those arrests appear to have led to charges, or the cases were dismissed in a way that no longer appears in court records. Twenty twenty two, he was arrested for assault on a female and property injury April and May of twenty four, repeatedly dying nine to one one while not having an actual emergency. And that was before the nine one one call that got him arrested most recently in twenty twenty five. So yeah, the record and his mental condition should have been the red flags. All right, that'll do it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could not do the show without your support and the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, So if you'd like, please support them too and tell them you heard it here. You can also become a patron at my patreon page or go to vpetecleanershow dot com. Again, thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything while I'm gone.